Mario Williams

[Ole Miss Texan]

I like when Wade has him up on the line with his hand down. Is this your typical OLB position? probably not, but it puts Mario in the best position to get into the backfield quickest. Teams counter by running the opposite direction, this feeds them into the teeth of Wades defensive shifts. If Mario gets a sack or tackle behind the line of scrimmage that's a bonus, bottom line is there will be more three & outs than ever allowing Texan offense to rack up significantly more scoring plays which should translate into more wins

Great post, I agree with you too much BL. I love seeing Mario on the line of scrimmage. Whether we want to call this a 3-4, 4-3 or 5-2.... I still think Mario will be doing virtually the same thing. Maybe he stands up a little more, but it's not like he won't have his hand in the dirt either.

We're finally getting a really really solid front 7 unit. Mario, Watt, Smith, Barwin, Reed, et al... I hope we can find a stud NT this next draft and I hope we don't let these pieces get away. Build it and keep it.

 

[El Tejano]

Eh...he sux!

 

[dream_team]

1st, I disagree that TE's and lineman consistently lock him up. IMHO, a lot of people like to look at games and make determinations without knowing exactly what a player is trying to do. Often times D-linemen are asked to hold the point of attack in running situations. Exactly how many times have you seen Mario get pushed back and cleared out of the way?

This! ^^^

People will like to point at a video clip of Mario setting the edge, then say... "see! he can't even fight off that block." none of us really knows what defensive play was called in that situation. if Mario rushed the passer on every single down, offenses would simply call screens and draws his way. they have to mix it up to keep the offense guessing what he's going to do.

What makes Mario great is his versatility. He plays the run just as well as he rushes the passer... so why make him one dimensional?

 

[DocBar]

Damn. Nobody was more against MW moving to WOLB than me, and I let it go. The people that know what they're talking about decided to move him there, so let it be and we'll all see what it will be. I'm just glad that Kubiak doesn;t have that "just sucked on a lemon" look that Peyton has. Yes, I'm watching the game and Green Bay just recovered a Saints fumble.

 

[DocBar]

Seeing MW on the sidelines of todays game, I think we've seen him play his last game as a Texan. I just can't figure out how we'll be able to keep him and sign key players like AF this offseason.
MW has been very good, but I think Reed has shown that he can fill that spot admirably and Foster has earned a HUUUUUUUGE payday.
What do you guys think? I'm not all that great with cap numbers.

 

[ziggy29]

Seeing MW on the sidelines of todays game, I think we've seen him play his last game as a Texan. I just can't figure out how we'll be able to keep him and sign key players like AF this offseason.
MW has been very good, but I think Reed has shown that he can fill that spot admirably and Foster has earned a HUUUUUUUGE payday.
What do you guys think? I'm not all that great with cap numbers.

At the start of this season I would have thought bringing Mario back was an absolute must. Seeing the emergence of other players on the D-line makes me backtrack a little from that. I still want him back if a deal can be made that makes the finances work, but I'm not sure a bank-breaking deal is worth it for the team at this point. And I think keeping him would require a below-market deal given the other signing needs and salary cap issues.

 

[Nawzer]

Seeing MW on the sidelines of todays game, I think we've seen him play his last game as a Texan. I just can't figure out how we'll be able to keep him and sign key players like AF this offseason.
MW has been very good, but I think Reed has shown that he can fill that spot admirably and Foster has earned a HUUUUUUUGE payday.
What do you guys think? I'm not all that great with cap numbers.

Well the Texans need to make an educated decision with MW. It can't just be a decision simply based on the hopes that guys like Brooks Reed and Connor Barwin will be even better next year. They need to research, analyze, and dissect every piece of information they have on MW and then make a decision. Personally, I think he'll be back for at least 1 more year, but with the money saved they can sign a good no.2 receiver, another pass rusher, and perhaps more help in the secondary. It's going to be a tough decision for Rick Smith to make. All we can hope for as fans is that the decision is made with due diligence.

 

[DexmanC]

They ain't gonna let Mario walk for nothin. They'll franchise his ass first.
Could you imagine this guy with THIS defense next year? Who you gonna
double team at the line of scrimmage? They may average a sack-per-pass
attempt on defense with all the weapons the Texans will be bringing back.

 

[fiasco west]

Seeing MW on the sidelines of todays game, I think we've seen him play his last game as a Texan. I just can't figure out how we'll be able to keep him and sign key players like AF this offseason.
MW has been very good, but I think Reed has shown that he can fill that spot admirably and Foster has earned a HUUUUUUUGE payday.
What do you guys think? I'm not all that great with cap numbers.

Isn't Foster a RFA any ways? Foster isn't going any where, if anything he's looking like the franchise player on the offense.

I'd like to have Mario back. Sure Barwin has stepped in and done his thing but I think Mario is a different animal and with him we'd be one step closer to building a legendary defense. Also I think McNair will want Mario back, we know he can be a sympathetic guy and lets remember all the crap this team has taken because they picked Mario over Bush/VY...I don't see him just letting Mario walk. If Mario goes it's probably because a team opened up the bank to a number the Texans cap can't match.

I guess we'll see, it'll be the biggest story for this team in the offseason but I sure hope we won't have to think about it until February

 

[Goatcheese]

Mario is a 20 sack threat in Wade's scheme and is a mountain on run defense. BR has done well for a 2nd round pick, but he's not close to replacing a legitimate blue chip player. You don't just let an elite talent walk.

Foster is a RFA and we can keep him for peanuts.

 

[pirbroke]

I would like to see him back at end, but watt ain't going nowhere and the ninja has been a assessing lately. It will be a tough offseason for Smith. I also wonder if Mario is healthy enough to play now, or at super bowl time. It would be a bummer if we reach super bowl and he is healthy but must stay in street clothes.

 

[DocBar]

At the start of this season I would have thought bringing Mario back was an absolute must. Seeing the emergence of other players on the D-line makes me backtrack a little from that. I still want him back if a deal can be made that makes the finances work, but I'm not sure a bank-breaking deal is worth it for the team at this point. And I think keeping him would require a below-market deal given the other signing needs and salary cap issues.

I was all for trading him in TC and PS then he played like a monster for the 1st few games. I'm for keeping him, but only if the price is right.

Well the Texans need to make an educated decision with MW. It can't just be a decision simply based on the hopes that guys like Brooks Reed and Connor Barwin will be even better next year. They need to research, analyze, and dissect every piece of information they have on MW and then make a decision. Personally, I think he'll be back for at least 1 more year, but with the money saved they can sign a good no.2 receiver, another pass rusher, and perhaps more help in the secondary. It's going to be a tough decision for Rick Smith to make. All we can hope for as fans is that the decision is made with due diligence.

I think they were doing that when they drafted Reed. No one knew if MW could make the change, so the drafted some insurance that payed offf big time.

They ain't gonna let Mario walk for nothin. They'll franchise his ass first.
Could you imagine this guy with THIS defense next year? Who you gonna
double team at the line of scrimmage? They may average a sack-per-pass
attempt on defense with all the weapons the Texans will be bringing back.

If they franchise him, do that do it at the OLB or DE position? Do they sign and trade him? If not, they're basically paying very high rent on a player for one season and that hurts the cap more than just letting him walk. If they had no intentions of letting him walk, they would've extended him in the PS.

 

[thunderkyss]

Seeing MW on the sidelines of todays game, I think we've seen him play his last game as a Texan. I just can't figure out how we'll be able to keep him and sign key players like AF this offseason.

That's why Richard Smith gets paid the big bucks.

I guarantee you Mario won't count more than $6M against our cap if we decide to keep him.

I've seen enough from our front 7 to be comfortable with the idea of moving forward without Mario. But if I had my rathers, we either sign Mario to a long term deal or draft someone early to replace him.

Brooks Reed & Connor Barwin are nice, but we're one injury away from having no pass rush.

 

[amazing80]

I would like to see him back at end, but watt ain't going nowhere and the ninja has been a assessing lately. It will be a tough offseason for Smith. I also wonder if Mario is healthy enough to play now, or at super bowl time. It would be a bummer if we reach super bowl and he is healthy but must stay in street clothes.

i read that he is healthy to play next weekend. Not sure how good he would have been as not playing and not being in game shape would have affected him. So maybe it is a blessing we IRd him because we would have started him and Reed and Barwin are playing too good not to let them continue RIGHT NOW.

Long term, we need to figure out how to sign Mario, Foster and figure out if Yates is the guy, because Matt will be a free agent soon as well.

I think the best solution would be working out a deal with Mario and trading Ryans. Love the guy, but you can get a quality ILB for much cheaper and use the money on Foster. It is a tough choice either way, but this is what separates great perennial playoff teams, from the occasional run some teams make. This off-season will be a crazy one even if it means we sign no outside free agents.

Not to mention quality back-ups like Dresseen will most likely go elsewhere for more money.

 

[Scooter]

what free agents do we want or need? if we can keep our own (mario and foster), and sign our draft picks, we are exactly where we want to be next season. again, i guessed wrong about his being able to transition to linebacker, but folks seem to be ignoring his impact every season - including this one.

mario williams is an all-pro for good reason, everyone who talks about the texans calls him our best defensive player for good reason. we're jaded. 9 sacks and the best run stuffing DE on a busted shoulder makes him a bum. a sack per start in his transition, against the meat of our schedule isnt enough. we're not going to get a better rush linebacker OR a better defensive end ... forget about having someone who can be both at his level. we dont need 3 good players for one great, we need our all-pro with a full offseason to get healthy and training camp to take our defense from 2nd to 1st.

 

[TexansBull]

Why would Mario want to stay here if Wade isn't here?

I think the Mario discussion is on hold until we see what Wade does. He said if they franchise him in the end he is a DE(more money) than a LB. He probably would want to be a DE instead of a LB if Wade isn't here. He knows Wade is a defensive genius and Wade was giving him the shot to be a Demarcus Ware type of player in this defense. Lets hope Wade stays because then our offseason gets more complicated.

 

[ChampionTexan]

Why would Mario want to stay here if Wade isn't here?

I think the Mario discussion is on hold until we see what Wade does. He said if they franchise him in the end he is a DE(more money) than a LB. He probably would want to be a DE instead of a LB if Wade isn't here. He knows Wade is a defensive genius and Wade was giving him the shot to be a Demarcus Ware type of player in this defense. Lets hope Wade stays because then our offseason gets more complicated.

This has been said numerous times in these discussions, but if franchised, Mario will receive a tender of 120% of his 2011 salary. This number (whatever it is) is in excess of what the franchise amount will be for any defensive position, making that designation meaningless to both the Texans and Mario.

 

[El Tejano]

I will say this. If there is anything we learned this season it is that you can't have enough depth on your team.

Yes, letting go of Mario would save us cap money or you could even sign and trade him and get some value but letting him go not only takes away a very good pass rusher but it also takes away our ability to have another experienced guy on the team.

As much as I think Dreesen is a great addition to this team. The ultimate teammate and player. I do believe that we spent a draft pick on Garret Graham and James Casey and I think they can do an adequate job or better.

Foster is a no brainer. You lock him up today.

 

[beerlover]

If Colts can pay Manning then the #1 overall pick so can Texans at minimum pay Mario Williams.

 

[amazing80]

If Colts can pay Manning then the #1 overall pick so can Texans at minimum pay Mario Williams.

Ya but the Colts have a ton of players coming off their books, like wayne and mathis more notably.

 

[dalemurphy]

They ain't gonna let Mario walk for nothin. They'll franchise his ass first.
Could you imagine this guy with THIS defense next year? Who you gonna
double team at the line of scrimmage? They may average a sack-per-pass
attempt on defense with all the weapons the Texans will be bringing back.

They can't franchise tag him. He would cost $17 million against the cap. There is no way they can afford to do that. It is simply not possible.

 

[TexansBull]

This has been said numerous times in these discussions, but if franchised, Mario will receive a tender of 120% of his 2011 salary. This number (whatever it is) is in excess of what the franchise amount will be for any defensive position, making that designation meaningless to both the Texans and Mario.

Thanks for correcting me, but thats not the point of my post. The point is Mario's choice to sign a long term deal or be adverse to getting franchised may be related to whether Wade is here or not.

 

[DocBar]

what free agents do we want or need? if we can keep our own (mario and foster), and sign our draft picks, we are exactly where we want to be next season. again, i guessed wrong about his being able to transition to linebacker, but folks seem to be ignoring his impact every season - including this one.

mario williams is an all-pro for good reason, everyone who talks about the texans calls him our best defensive player for good reason. we're jaded. 9 sacks and the best run stuffing DE on a busted shoulder makes him a bum. a sack per start in his transition, against the meat of our schedule isnt enough. we're not going to get a better rush linebacker OR a better defensive end ... forget about having someone who can be both at his level. we dont need 3 good players for one great, we need our all-pro with a full offseason to get healthy and training camp to take our defense from 2nd to 1st.

There are a lot more than just MW and AF being FA's this iffseason. Myers, Dreesen and Allen are also FA's. Remember, we're on the verge of maxing out our cap right now.

 

[marks01234]

There are a lot more than just MW and AF being FA's this iffseason. Myers, Dreesen and Allen are also FA's. Remember, we're on the verge of maxing out our cap right now.

Mario takng up a big portion of the cap right now. We should be able to sign him long term and have a significant chunk free'd up right there. Enough to get Foster locked in.

Got to sign those guys. Franchise players. Keep them around and we can find the other pieces.

 

[DocBar]

Mario takng up a big portion of the cap right now. We should be able to sign him long term and have a significant chunk free'd up right there. Enough to get Foster locked in.

Got to sign those guys. Franchise players. Keep them around and we can find the other pieces.

IF MW is willing. Don't forget about draft picks, blah blah blah. It just isn't going to be that easy. I hope we can keep MW and see him blossom in the 3-4, but I just don't see it as economically feasible.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Mario will be offered a lot more than he is worth here... That said, (and I like Mario a lot), he should go make some money on a 4-3 team...

Do I want him back, "Oh Hell Yeah"!! Signed Stoned Cold Steve Austin!!!!

 

[VTexan]

We will sign Arian to a big time contract and franchise Mario.. as a linebacker

 

[steelbtexan]

what free agents do we want or need? if we can keep our own (mario and foster), and sign our draft picks, we are exactly where we want to be next season. again, i guessed wrong about his being able to transition to linebacker, but folks seem to be ignoring his impact every season - including this one.

mario williams is an all-pro for good reason, everyone who talks about the texans calls him our best defensive player for good reason. we're jaded. 9 sacks and the best run stuffing DE on a busted shoulder makes him a bum. a sack per start in his transition, against the meat of our schedule isnt enough. we're not going to get a better rush linebacker OR a better defensive end ... forget about having someone who can be both at his level. we dont need 3 good players for one great, we need our all-pro with a full offseason to get healthy and training camp to take our defense from 2nd to 1st.

I will settle for 2nd if MW's $$$$ are spent on an impact WR/CB/OG.

I'm interesed in seeing what Braman can do next yr. He's got unreal god given ability. In addition to adding more depth in the draft.

BTW, I'm glad that everybody that thought the defense was going to stink without MW was wrong. The #2 defense without MW speaks volumes to MW's value to this team. If MW is willing to sign on the cheap (he wont) then I'm all for re-signing him. Otherwise I would let him walk. If he re-signed I also wouldn't just give him his old job back. He would have to earn it like most of the other guys on the team.

And no I'm not a MW hater. I just dont think the Texans have missed MW very much if at all.

 

[Mr teX]

I will settle for 2nd if MW's $$$$ are spent on an impact WR/CB/OG.

I'm interesed in seeing what Braman can do next yr. He's got unreal god given ability. In addition to adding more depth in the draft.

BTW, I'm glad that everybody that thought the defense was going to stink without MW was wrong. The #2 defense without MW speaks volumes to MW's value to this team. If MW is willing to sign on the cheap (he wont) then I'm all for re-signing him. Otherwise I would let him walk. If he re-signed I also wouldn't just give him his old job back. He would have to earn it like most of the other guys on the team.

And no I'm not a MW hater. I just dont think the Texans have missed MW very much if at all.

This is absurd. Dude has been your only stalwart on defense for years, he finally gets a competent d-coord. & begins to flourish & then you say peace out to him/ make him earn his job back? :kubepalm:


He needs to be brought back & should be. Reed has stepped in & done OK, but i've seen nothing to indicate he's the 2nd coming of Kevin Greene or even CM III. I'd like to see more before i say goodbye to a bonafide stud edge rusher in Mario.

Someone mentioned it earlier, but i think the odd man out should be Ryans. Not only for the reasons he stated, but also b/c he comes off the field anyway in most 3rd & long passing situations & is obviously a liability in coverage. One of the reasons people want Reed over Mario is b/c of his versatility to cover the pass. Well, If i'm wade i put that to the test.

I ask Reed to drop about 10-15 lbs, pair him up with Sharpton in the offseason (competition) & see how he looks at the other MLB spot alongside Cush next year. This gets he & Mario on the field together & we see if Reed is in fact the real deal. We'd also get to see what we really have in Braman as well since he'd then be Mario/Barwin's main back up.

If it doesn't work, well you can always kick Mario back down to DE & slide Reed back over to OLB. Sharpton can then step in alongside Cush.

 

[Clamp]

This is absurd. Dude has been your only stalwart on defense for years, he finally gets a competent d-coord. & begins to flourish & then you say peace out to him/ make him earn his job back? :kubepalm:


He needs to be brought back & should be. Reed has stepped in & done OK, but i've seen nothing to indicate he's the 2nd coming of Kevin Greene or even CM III. I'd like to see more before i say goodbye to a bonafide stud edge rusher in Mario.

Someone mentioned it earlier, but i think the odd man out should be Ryans. Not only for the reasons he stated, but also b/c he comes off the field anyway in most 3rd & long passing situations & is obviously a liability in coverage. One of the reasons people want Reed over Mario is b/c of his versatility to cover the pass. Well, If i'm wade i put that to the test.

I ask Reed to drop about 10-15 lbs, pair him up with Sharpton in the offseason (competition) & see how he looks at the other MLB spot alongside Cush next year. This gets he & Mario on the field together & we see if Reed is in fact the real deal. We'd also get to see what we really have in Braman as well since he'd then be Mario/Barwin's main back up.

If it doesn't work, well you can always kick Mario back down to DE & slide Reed back over to OLB. Sharpton can then step in alongside Cush.

I agree with you for the most part, but I don't know how Reed would do moving inside. He was a defensive end in college so he is already a conversion player moving to OLB, so moving inside where he would have many more responsibilities is yet another BIG change for him especially in only his second year. He may be able to do it, but its asking a lot and most guys who have walked his path would not be successfull doing that I dont think.

 

[Allstar]

They can't franchise tag him. He would cost $17 million against the cap. There is no way they can afford to do that. It is simply not possible.

You sound an awful lot like a certain not-so-liked Chronicle reporter before we went after Asomugha. Remember-- the Jets went into last offseason with not much cap room to speak of, signed Holmes to a $50 million deal and then had the cheese to sign Nnamdi.

The salary cap is a funny thing, and has been worked many different ways in the past. I would not be surprised in the least if the Texans worked a few contracts in a way that allowed us to franchise Mario and sign Foster. I'm not saying that's what I prefer to happen, but I've learned in the past that assuming things about the cap can be rather pointless.

 

[fiasco west]

I will settle for 2nd if MW's $$$$ are spent on an impact WR/CB/OG.

I'm interesed in seeing what Braman can do next yr. He's got unreal god given ability. In addition to adding more depth in the draft.

BTW, I'm glad that everybody that thought the defense was going to stink without MW was wrong. The #2 defense without MW speaks volumes to MW's value to this team. If MW is willing to sign on the cheap (he wont) then I'm all for re-signing him. Otherwise I would let him walk. If he re-signed I also wouldn't just give him his old job back. He would have to earn it like most of the other guys on the team.

And no I'm not a MW hater. I just dont think the Texans have missed MW very much if at all.

And what about the first few weeks without Foster? Did it say volumes about what Foster is worth?

No, but it was a few people who thought Foster was 'replaceable' because Tate played well. Now that Foster is healthy and beasting out there no one would dare say that. Tate was the guy that was getting stuffed last Saturday...Imagine if we didn't have Foster and just Tate for that Bengals game...

The same applies here. Just because the defense has been great without Mario doesn't mean they aren't BETTER with him. It's not like when Mario was on the field the defense sucked. If anything the front 7 got great pressure when he was on the field.

Also Reed is taking Barwin's old spot. Barwin is the guy who has actually replaced Mario.

I dunno bout anyone else but Mario, Cushing, Ryans, and Barwin sounds like the best group of LBs in the NFL. Not mind that Reed and Sharpton (still have faith in that guy) can sub in and out and keep guys fresh.

 

[dalemurphy]

We will sign Arian to a big time contract and franchise Mario.. as a linebacker

His franchise tag will still be $17 million, because anyone tagged is guaranteed a 20% increase over the previous season.

 

[dalemurphy]

You sound an awful lot like a certain not-so-liked Chronicle reporter before we went after Asomugha. Remember-- the Jets went into last offseason with not much cap room to speak of, signed Holmes to a $50 million deal and then had the cheese to sign Nnamdi.

The salary cap is a funny thing, and has been worked many different ways in the past. I would not be surprised in the least if the Texans worked a few contracts in a way that allowed us to franchise Mario and sign Foster. I'm not saying that's what I prefer to happen, but I've learned in the past that assuming things about the cap can be rather pointless.

First of all, signing Holmes and bidding on Asomugha is much different. Any deal can be manipulated and back-ended to make it relatively inexpensive in the short term. Franchise tags are quite different. That number is a hard number. Remember, the Texans are right up against the cap and had to reconfigure contracts to get Manning and Joseph done. They can get a little relief by extending Schaub but they also have guys like Myers, Dreessen, Duane Brown, not to mention Foster (whom they promised a new deal after this season) that they need to re-sign or extend for numbers north of their previous deals.

If the Texans are going to keep Mario, they will have to sign him to a long term deal. I would love to keep Mario via the franchise tag but it's not plausible. It's cut him loose or pay him for another 5 or 6 years. That is the only decision to make if the franchise number everyone is reporting for him is close to accurate.

 

[amazing80]

On another board a poster said he read from an insider on twitter a few weeks back that you can no longer franchise a player then trade them, per the new cba rules.......has anyone else heard about this or have a link so I can search? I know someone posted the CBA agreement on here before, so can someone link me to it again please.....

 

[gafftop]

Re: The Mario Issue, Let's look at it in another way

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by gafftop 4/19/11
Simplified possible Mario outcomes next season:
1. Plays good when healthy but has some type of nagging injury as last two years
2. Does not adapt to 3-4.
3. Plays great in his contract year

In 1 we get probably nothing or do we get compensation because we do not sign as we did with Dunta. Last pick in draft. LOL

In 2 same as 1

In 3, do you want to give Mario say 20+ million for the next 5 years based on his last year of performance. Say the cap is 120 million. If you divide in half, half for offense and half for defense, do you really want to give Mario 33% of all money for defense? I sure don't. DO YOU?

In reality probably no player is worth that large of % of cap. Maybe Peyton or Brady etc QBs of that caliber may be the only position that warrants that and even then it is a crap shoot because of injury.

The above is why I think IF you can get a good deal in a trade this year you do it.

It is very likely that other teams view Mario in the same way and will give nothing for him this year. I don't know. But if there are teams out that that covet him I think it should seriously be considered by the Texans.

I don't think Aso is a good deal based on reasoning above.
Just my opinion. "

12/20/11 Update on Mario situation

Here we are almost exactly 8 months from the above post. Took a lot of negative hits from this thread I started. Here we are now and where do we stand? It was my feeling that no matter what happened we would be in a bad place with Mario once the season was over.

I am reading on other threads that we trade Mario now for this and/or that. Someone please explain how we do this? Isn't he a free agent? I think we missed our chance to get something of value for MW. I still thinks he WALKS with us getting nothing but the PITY pick/consolation pick/Dunta pick etc.

Why do I think we get nothing? I don't think we can " non-exclusive " franchise and expect anyone to offer anything for Mario if it means them giving up high round draft choices. I don't think we outright franchise him because he is not worth what we would need to pay him. We can transition tag him but correct me if I am wrong, if we don't match we get nothing.

Anyone watch the game last night. Anyone see Aldon Smith. Anyone think Mario is better. I am sure there are.

Somebody make me feel better and explain how we come out of this deal whole.

I can't help but think where this team would be now if a trade would have been made and we had a real 1b WR and another real CB.

The great teams stay great by always increasing overall talent VALUE. We will lose overall value if we keep Mario or we lose overall value if we let Mario walk.

I really am ecstatic with the Texans season. It may not seem like that but I am. I just have this feeling that we could be a whole lot better if a trade was made.

You asked for it and there it is.

I think the outcome of this Mario situation will be a major factor in the future of the Texans. I think the best outcome has passed us by. That being trading him while we still had rights. We rolled the dice but my feelings were they would come up snake eyes no matter what in reference to long term. Our best situation would have been for him to play like Bruce Smith and stay healthy and help us go deep in playoffs .

Someone again please explain how we trade him and get something for him in the off season. I am just not seeing it.

1/10/12
Tired of rehashing this issue, so I just copy what was posted 9 months ago in the top section of this post.

Go Texans.

 

[thunderkyss]

I will settle for 2nd if MW's $$$$ are spent on an impact WR/CB/OG.

I'm interesed in seeing what Braman can do next yr. He's got unreal god given ability. In addition to adding more depth in the draft.

BTW, I'm glad that everybody that thought the defense was going to stink without MW was wrong. The #2 defense without MW speaks volumes to MW's value to this team. If MW is willing to sign on the cheap (he wont) then I'm all for re-signing him. Otherwise I would let him walk. If he re-signed I also wouldn't just give him his old job back. He would have to earn it like most of the other guys on the team.

And no I'm not a MW hater. I just dont think the Texans have missed MW very much if at all.

I don't think too many people thought our defense was goin to suck without Mario Williams I'm one of the biggest "keep Mario" proponents & I've never thought our defense would suck without Mario.

But to this day, I think we would ave a better defense with Mario than without. Yes, I think we would have the #1 defense with Mario, by a good margin.

Next year when we play more competent offenses, like Greenbay, Detroit, Chicago, New England, Miami... A better Colts team, Jags, & TItans... I'd rather have that extra edge rusher.

 

[thunderkyss]

You sound an awful lot like a certain not-so-liked Chronicle reporter before we went after Asomugha. Remember-- the Jets went into last offseason with not much cap room to speak of, signed Holmes to a $50 million deal and then had the cheese to sign Nnamdi.

The salary cap is a funny thing, and has been worked many different ways in the past. I would not be surprised in the least if the Texans worked a few contracts in a way that allowed us to franchise Mario and sign Foster. I'm not saying that's what I prefer to happen, but I've learned in the past that assuming things about the cap can be rather pointless.

I'm honestly a little curious as to why the Texans didn't do something with Mario's contract this past offseason. I know they were moving him to another position, but they should know what they have in Mario & what they are going to get from him.

If they franchise him, that tells me they aren't as confident in Mario as I am.

 

[gafftop]

I'm honestly a little curious as to why the Texans didn't do something with Mario's contract this past offseason. I know they were moving him to another position, but they should know what they have in Mario & what they are going to get from him.
If they franchise him, that tells me they aren't as confident in Mario as I am.

What does it tell you if they let him walk.

My guess is they know what they have in Mario and they try to move him ( even though I think the chances are very slim and that option is over) or he walks. Someone with more knowledge may be able to explain how the new franchise levels work but based on the old ones I don't think the Texans will franchise him, they just can't afford to. Plus I don't think the demand out in the league is high for Mario, plus what leverage do the Texans have on Mario. I am sure they talked to Mario during the off season but he probably wanted to test FA.

The Texans rolled the dice on him and again I think the best outcome would have been if he stayed healthy and played to an All Pro caliber and still I think the Texans would have had a dilemma in regards with what to do about Mario in the upcoming season.

I don't think the odds were very good on rolling the dice and keeping Mario this season vs trading him.

Very interested to see how it all ends. I think Mario will not break the bank where ever he ends up. Just my opinion.

 

[badboy]

what free agents do we want or need? if we can keep our own (mario and foster), and sign our draft picks, we are exactly where we want to be next season. again, i guessed wrong about his being able to transition to linebacker, but folks seem to be ignoring his impact every season - including this one.

mario williams is an all-pro for good reason, everyone who talks about the texans calls him our best defensive player for good reason. we're jaded. 9 sacks and the best run stuffing DE on a busted shoulder makes him a bum. a sack per start in his transition, against the meat of our schedule isnt enough. we're not going to get a better rush linebacker OR a better defensive end ... forget about having someone who can be both at his level. we dont need 3 good players for one great, we need our all-pro with a full offseason to get healthy and training camp to take our defense from 2nd to 1st.

There is just no way you can know this. You do not have any idea of how well a draft pick can be. For example Donta Hightower and Vinn Curry could be Demeco Ryans and Mario Williams. You admit you guessed wron about Mario transitioning and you could be wrong here also. I am not advocatging a trade but would consider offers before saying yes or no.

 

[infantrycak]

Quick comparison to a team looking at retaining their best pass rusher:

JJ Watt - 2.6 mil
Antonio Smith - 8 mil
Conner Barwin - $585k
Shaun Cody - $2.25 mil
Mario - ?

Corey Williams - 6 mil
Ndamukong Suh - 9.25 mil (salary only, couldn't find bonuses)
Kyle Vanden Bosch - 5.9 mil
Cliff Avril - ?

DL and OLB's Texans - $13.44 mil + Mario
DL Detroit - $21.15 mil

 

[badboy]

Quick comparison to a team looking at retaining their best pass rusher:

JJ Watt - 2.6 mil
Antonio Smith - 8 mil
Conner Barwin - $585k
Shaun Cody - $2.25 mil
Mario - ?

Corey Williams - 6 mil
Ndamukong Suh - 9.25 mil (salary only, couldn't find bonuses)
Kyle Vanden Bosch - 5.9 mil
Cliff Avril - ?

DL and OLB's Texans - $13.44 mil + Mario
DL Detroit - $21.15 mil

Smith got a 12.5m bonus and I think Mario could get much more and keep his cap hit about same as Antonio's. Smith is signed through 2013 and we need to draft someone eventually to replace him. Does JJ Watt have a younger brother coming out soon? Or Smith for that matter.

 

[nero THE zero]

Smith got a 12.5m bonus and I think Mario could get much more and keep his cap hit about same as Antonio's. Smith is signed through 2013 and we need to draft someone eventually to replace him. Does JJ Watt have a younger brother coming out soon? Or Smith for that matter.

Yes.

Derek Watt
Outside linebacker
Pewaukee, Wisconsin
Pewaukee
View Map
Ht:6'2"
Wt:215 lbs
Bench Max:315
Squat Max:450
Shuttle:4.3
Class:2011 (High School)

 

[gafftop]

Smith got a 12.5m bonus and I think Mario could get much more and keep his cap hit about same as Antonio's. Smith is signed through 2013 and we need to draft someone eventually to replace him. Does JJ Watt have a younger brother coming out soon? Or Smith for that matter.

Does the bonus they receive never go against the cap? I have a hard time believing it never counts against the cap. Someone please explain. Thanks

 

[badboy]

Does the bonus they receive never go against the cap? I have a hard time believing it never counts against the cap. Someone please explain. Thanks

Bonuses are different but when speaking in general bonus is considered "upfront" money that player gets to sign the contract. The amount is averaged over the deal. For example Smith's $12.5m over 5 yrs was subtracted from his total deal of $35.5m. His annual salary can then be divided however agent and team chooses. The bonus is divided over deal= $12.5m divided by 5= $2.5m added to each year's salary. Smith's for 2011 was $4.6 + $2.5= $7.1m total cap hit. 2012: $5.5m + 2.5= $8m. If a player is traded the entire remaining amount is applied against team total cap next season. To clarify, the total bonus "up front" is subtracted from total contract amount to get true "salary costs". $35.5m - 12.5m= $23 million over 5 years + the prorated avg of $2.5m.

This is why I believe Texans will be able to sign Mario if they choose. Dunta Robinson signed for $7m bonus BUT $25.5 m guaranteed. A combo of SMith and DR's deal for Mario: 6 year $72m with $20m upfront and first 3 seasons guaranteed.

$72m- $20(bonus)= $52m salary.
$20m divided by 6(years)= $3.4m annual cap hit. Here is where it gets good. We backload the 6 years say 1. $3m 2. $3m 3. $3m Now he has $20m in his pocket + $9m for 3 years guaranteed. The cap is $3.4( bonus)+ $3m salary = $6.4m for three seasons. His 2011 cap was $15m and we now have the difference of almost $9million.

In 2013, the new television monster deal with NFL kicks in with an extra $3Billion to be divided among 32 teams.

Mario remaining 3 seasons: $52m- $9m (1st 3 seasons)=$43m divided by remain 3 seasons = $14m which is where he stands for 2011.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

babboy is headed in the right direction, as usual.

Keep in mind the salary cap should be increasing over the next several years. So while we were close to it this year, next year may be a different story. It will be very interesting to watch this transpire.

 

[infantrycak]

Does the bonus they receive never go against the cap? I have a hard time believing it never counts against the cap. Someone please explain. Thanks

Bonuses all eventually count against the cap. The variation is in timing of the cap accounting. Signing bonuses are pro-rated over the lifetime of the contract. Roster bonuses are accounted for in the cap for the league year in which they are paid.

 

[PapaL]

Mario's contract is going to be the Giant White Elephant in the room whenever our off-season starts.

 

[Rey]

Smith got a 12.5m bonus and I think Mario could get much more and keep his cap hit about same as Antonio's. Smith is signed through 2013 and we need to draft someone eventually to replace him. Does JJ Watt have a younger brother coming out soon? Or Smith for that matter.

I can't think of the guy's name, but there is a player from SMU that I really like as a late round draft pick.

I've also mocked Jared Crick as I think he could be good value if he slips because of his inury.