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Texans random thought of the day

steelbtexan said:
One person beating the odds on a test doesn't make the test a BS test.

The reason nobody is talking about the test this yr is because Stroud beat the test agents are telling their clients not to take the test. Let the Wunderlich return.
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It’s still a BS way to evaluate quarterback’s period. I said it then and I’m standing on that.
 
Texansballer74 said:
It’s still a BS way to evaluate quarterback’s period. I said it then and I’m standing on that.
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Agree to disagree.

Some scored well on the Wunderlich and did poorly and vise versa.

But over all the Wunderlich worked. It told you guys like VY weren't starter level NFL QB's.
 
Texansballer74 said:
www.nbcsports.com

Athletes First directs clients to refuse to submit to S2 or other cognitive testing

It's about time.
www.nbcsports.com www.nbcsports.com
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I'm not sure other agencies were as concerned about the S2. The real reason we haven't heard about the s2 scores are A) teams are keeping better control of the results and B) the media hasn't chased the scores.
steelbtexan said:
One person beating the odds on a test doesn't make the test a BS test.
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Stroud didn't "beat the odds". He flipped the test on its head and spun it like a top. How can anyone trust a test that the developers said would filter out QBs that can't play. And it filtered out one of the greatest rookie QBs in football history. It was a huge failure of the S2.

As I said last year prior to the draft, there were not enough data points to make that conclusion. S2 tried to rig the results from the beginning, testing and releasing the results of Drew Brees. "Hey Brees did great on the test! That means it works!" Um, did they go back and test Ryan Leaf, David Carr, or Joey Harrington? Nope, don't need to know that. The S2 is a failure until it is not. And that will take a number of data points that you and I won't see in our lifetime.
 
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Lucky said:
I thought the narrative last year was that he lost too much weight. I think Pierce will be better in 2024, but who knows?
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Could he be worse? Fortunately for him, he added some real value at KR and he could continue with that role this year.
 
Lucky said:
I thought the narrative last year was that he lost too much weight. I think Pierce will be better in 2024, but who knows?
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That was the narrative..........but his weight through the years has not veered from his Combine weight of 218. The difference is that he became leaner.................losing fat and gaining muscle.

I don't believe that weight was the reason for his performance drop off. The drop off was fueled by the new offensive scheme which was a mismatch for a power back.
 
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Porky said:
Could he be worse?
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Pierce could be much better with an improved and more consistent offensive line. In 2022, Pierce averaged 2.0 yards before contact. Last season, 1.2 yards before contact. Give the guy a bit longer of a runway, and things could change. How many times was Pierce knocked down behind the LOS on those Slowik special toss sweeps?

The running game must improve across all aspects. Reading the defense, blocking assignments, and scheme. Slowik needs to find what the players do best and plan around that. The Texans were 29th in yards per rushing attempts in 2023. It will take everyone getting better to bring the running game up to respectability.
 
Lucky said:
Pierce could be much better with an improved and more consistent offensive line. In 2022, Pierce averaged 2.0 yards before contact. Last season, 1.2 yards before contact. Give the guy a bit longer of a runway, and things could change. How many times was Pierce knocked down behind the LOS on those Slowik special toss sweeps?

The running game must improve across all aspects. Reading the defense, blocking assignments, and scheme. Slowik needs to find what the players do best and plan around that. The Texans were 29th in yards per rushing attempts in 2023. It will take everyone getting better to bring the running game up to respectability.
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My opinion is that Pierce is a gap runner stuck in the ZBS. When he gets the ball he goes full steam towards the assigned hole, but behind zone blocking he doesn't seem to have that patient step in his running style to wait for one of the gaps to open. I'm not sure if that skill/style can be taught or if it's innate. I think if another non-ZBS would trade for him, they would be getting a very good starting RB.
 
cland said:
My opinion is that Pierce is a gap runner stuck in the ZBS.
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I think 2023 was Pierce's first experience in the ZBS. So there was a learning curve. I think that's the case with many college backs. Also, Pierce didn't get a lot of carries at Florida, so he was not as experienced as some RBs coming into the league. As we saw in 2022 Pierce has raw talent. The coaching staffs needs to find a way to bring that out.
 
cland said:
My opinion is that Pierce is a gap runner stuck in the ZBS. When he gets the ball he goes full steam towards the assigned hole, but behind zone blocking he doesn't seem to have that patient step in his running style to wait for one of the gaps to open. I'm not sure if that skill/style can be taught or if it's innate. I think if another non-ZBS would trade for him, they would be getting a very good starting RB.
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Or Slowick could call plays designed to his strength. Not all running plays have to be zbs
 
JB said:
Or Slowick could call plays designed to his strength. Not all running plays have to be zbs
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That's true, in that some teams aren't fully ZBS. But in the M. Shanahan > G. Kubiak > K. Shanahan > Bobby Slowik line of offenses, the line is purely zone. A lot of the misdirection is based off of running and passing plays looking exactly the same. If you have a purely zone line, changing the blocking scheme based on your RB could have the opposite effect. More athletic lineman will likely struggle in a gap blocking assignment that requires mauler-type lineman.
 
Lucky said:
I'm not sure other agencies were as concerned about the S2. The real reason we haven't heard about the s2 scores are A) teams are keeping better control of the results and B) the media hasn't chased the scores.

Stroud didn't "beat the odds". He flipped the test on its head and spun it like a top. How can anyone trust a test that the developers said would filter out QBs that can't play. And it filtered out one of the greatest rookie QBs in football history. It was a huge failure of the S2.

As I said last year prior to the draft, there were not enough data points to make that conclusion. S2 tried to rig the results from the beginning, testing and releasing the results of Drew Brees. "Hey Brees did great on the test! That means it works!" Um, did they go back and test Ryan Leaf, David Carr, or Joey Harrington? Nope, don't need to know that. The S2 is a failure until it is not. And that will take a number of data points that you and I won't see in our lifetime.
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Like I said one guy over performed his test results.
 
cland said:
That's true, in that some teams aren't fully ZBS. But in the M. Shanahan > G. Kubiak > K. Shanahan > Bobby Slowik line of offenses, the line is purely zone. A lot of the misdirection is based off of running and passing plays looking exactly the same. If you have a purely zone line, changing the blocking scheme based on your RB could have the opposite effect. More athletic lineman will likely struggle in a gap blocking assignment that requires mauler-type lineman.
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yeah, most of the linemen were brought in before Slowick and the zbs
 
JB said:
Or Slowick could call plays designed to his strength. Not all running plays have to be zbs
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I went back and watched this video of all Pierce touches in 2022. Plenty of plays, including big plays, where Pierce was able to read the backside hole and cut. Also, big plays where he hit the hole on the play side.


The great ZBS runners like Terrell Davis, Edgerrin James, and Arian Foster were able to glide play side then burst to the backside. The greatest of all time was Eric Dickerson. Pierce doesn't have that type of patience. He doesn't have the moves to make penetrators miss in the backfield. That's why he will always have a lower ceiling than the great runners like McCaffrey, who are rarely tackled by the first guy in the backfield. But there's enough juice in Pierce to be part of a RB by committee. We know Pierce is hell to bring down and can (with coaching) bring this team the toughness it needs in the run game.
 
I think Pierce's biggest issue is his natural pace. Some runners pace just fits better with the ZBS. As soon as pierce gets the ball he is trying to get up to max speed as soon as possible. Pierce is a buzz saw. Also, I think his default is to make a hole when things get a little tight versus finding a seam where he can burst through...But IMO, that goes back to the pace that he runs with. It's hard to let things develop and plant and accelerate through a seam when you're already going max speed.

Just watching those clips I think his vision is good enough. I see him make guys miss. I see instances of him hitting the hole....

If he can learn to be a little more patient and learns how to switch gears to explode through the hole I think he'll be very good, but that's a huge if.

JMO/
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I think Pierce's biggest issue is his natural pace. Some runners pace just fits better with the ZBS. As soon as pierce gets the ball he is trying to get up to max speed as soon as possible. Pierce is a buzz saw. Also, I think his default is to make a hole when things get a little tight versus finding a seam where he can burst through...But IMO, that goes back to the pace that he runs with. It's hard to let things develop and plant and accelerate through a seam when you're already going max speed.

Just watching those clips I think his vision is good enough. I see him make guys miss. I see instances of him hitting the hole....

If he can learn to be a little more patient and learns how to switch gears to explode through the hole I think he'll be very good, but that's a huge if.

JMO/
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My experience thinks that he is not a player who can naturally gear up and down while seeing a hole across the formation. Peirce can get better, but that kind of coordination of vision, body control and speed adjustment is pretty close to instinct.
 
Texansballer74 said:
What you mean agree to disagree. You didn’t know crap about that BS test until they tried to skit on CJ. Big difference.

We all knew about the Wunderlich test.
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Like I said one person beat the test.

That doesn't make the test invalid.

You think it does, so we're going to have to agree to disagree.
 
AcresHomesTexan said:
My experience thinks that he is not a player who can naturally gear up and down while seeing a hole across the formation. Peirce can get better, but that kind of coordination of vision, body control and speed adjustment is pretty close to instinct.
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I agree...

I do give him a small chance to work here whether it be his adjustment or coaching adjustment simply because we've seen him be really good in the nfl. Its not like he got old and is now washed.
 
Texansballer74 said:
It’s invalid whether you like it or not. That’s the reason why teams/agents are instructing players not to take that BS.
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Agreed there's a reason, it's in the best interest of their clients and it's the reason why I want the Wunderlich to come back. Truth is agents would rather their clients not take any tests, both mental or physical tests.
 
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Earl34 said:
How do you know it was one guy? Do you have results from other years?
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They have what I read about the test last year and a certain number of teams used their services, so they believed the results that were given to them and that counts a whole lot more than what I think.
 
AcresHomesTexan said:

610 interview...This is the closest to Nick C. acting as if there was any worry about the injury status of Howard.

Note: The hosts are not "in the loop" on even the possibility that Howard will not return at 100%
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The hosts go by what management tells them. They must not be members of this MB. They certainly don't read CnD's stuff. Maybe they should start reading his stuff. They might learn something. Nah, that'll never happen.
 
AcresHomesTexan said:

610 interview...This is the closest to Nick C. acting as if there was any worry about the injury status of Howard.

Note: The hosts are not "in the loop" on even the possibility that Howard will not return at 100%
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But they just do not acknowledge the fact that Howard is recovering from a serious injury and surgery. If practice was to start next week, Howard would be a non participant. Why keep quite on this information?
 
Number19 said:
But they just do not acknowledge the fact that Howard is recovering from a serious injury and surgery. If practice was to start next week, Howard would be a non participant. Why keep quite on this information?
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From a game theory standpoint, why give your opponents even if months away information that you are "required"?
 
Number19 said:
For the simple reason, games theory really doesn't apply. The information has no value to your opponents.
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So it is now NOT important that Howard may or not have a knee that may keep him from performing at his peak level?

We will disagree on that one.
 
AcresHomesTexan said:
So it is now NOT important that Howard may or not have a knee that may keep him from performing at his peak level?

We will disagree on that one.
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How in hades do you get there. You're off in another galaxy.

Why do you imagine that other teams are paying attention, or care, the remotest about Howard. FYI, this disinterest is not equivalent to the interest the Texans, or their fans, should have. There is nothing gained keeping this information from the public.
 
AcresHomesTexan said:
So it is now NOT important that Howard may or not have a knee that may keep him from performing at his peak level?

We will disagree on that one.
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At least the drafting of Fisher covers them when Howard underperforms or is injured again. There's a reason they drafted Fisher and brought back Heck. The reason is you cant depend on Howard even if he's healthy, which I'm betting he's not healthy.

What I like about Caserio/Ryans is that they prepare for the worst, while hoping for the best. A very good thought process.
 
steelbtexan said:
At least the drafting of Fisher covers them when Howard underperforms or is injured again. There's a reason they drafted Fisher and brought back Heck. The reason is you cant depend on Howard even if he's healthy, which I'm betting he's not healthy.

What I like about Caserio/Ryans is that they prepare for the worst, while hoping for the best. A very good thought process.
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TBF, Heck with his understanding of the scheme is extremely cheap and Fisher is a no-brainer whether Howard is healthy or not as he can play both sides.
 
Khelar said:
Or for people like me it’s getting bored at work and worrying about what we’re gonna do at corner if Stingley goes down
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Howard, Gilmore, and Nelson - 3 aging vets are still out there. I’d sign any of these guys to a 1 year deal. Hell, Howard has openly campigned to join the Texans. Let’s take him up on that offer.
 
steelbtexan said:
They have what I read about the test last year and a certain number of teams used their services, so they believed the results that were given to them and that counts a whole lot more than what I think.
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What teams used their services? What results were given to them? If they received results how do you know they believed them? Are they compelled to believe the results? If so why? Was there a history of fail proof results that would allow GM’s, coaches scouts, etc. to automatically believe these results over their traditional prospect evaluations? Did they unanimously approve of Young over CJ? How do you know?
 
Dejaview said:
What teams used their services? What results were given to them? If they received results how do you know they believed them? Are they compelled to believe the results? If so why? Was there a history of fail proof results that would allow GM’s, coaches scouts, etc. to automatically believe these results over their traditional prospect evaluations? Did they unanimously approve of Young over CJ? How do you know?
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They sold the test exclusively to a select number of teams. Less than 16 teams IIRC. They touted doing well on the test didn't ensure success, but a QB that did badly on the test hadn't succeeded as a QB in the NFL.
 
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