Clowney, then what?

[The Pencil Neck]

8 sacks, 12 TFLs, and 5 FFs is pretty good for a true freshman d-lineman that's still growing. What was your "concern" about that?

If Dan wants to bring up College Career, then I consider Watkins' career to be more consistently dominant.

And yes, Watkins was 1st team All American as a freshman, deservedly so. Clowney made it in his soph season. They're both great and have been since they arrived in college. I don't see Clowney's aversion to football. He's made some of the most violent hits I've ever seen. Made up by people that want him to fall in the draft, me thinks.

I think Watkins problems could be behind him, as well. But if I am going to weigh the concerns between the two, I'm much more concerned about Watkins. Ask Jacksonville about keeping their WR on the field.

Ask the Jets about keeping Vernon Gholston on the field or the Seahawks about keeping Aaron Curry on the field or how about we ask ourselves about keeping Sam Montgomery and Mario Williams on the field. These are all DE-type of players who've had similar questions to what Clowney has.

You're more concerned about Watkins' future; I'm more concerned about Clowney's.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I don't dislike Sammy Watkins, although to be honest I'd prefer a guy with a bigger frame, especially with letting Daniels walk. And I'll agree that he had a better collegiate career overall. I just think that we have 11 picks right now, WR is very deep this draft, and we need help at pass rush more than at wideout.

I'm also not trying to say Clowney is flawless or that anyone else is awful. I'm trying to point out that the criticisms being levied against Clowney can be used against a lot of other players too.

Like I said, I like Clowney OK. He's not my preferred choice. I don't think there is anyone at the top of this draft that doesn't have warts and I personally prefer Watkins' warts to Clowney's warts.

When I look at the top of the first round, I want to get the player I think is going to have the biggest impact to our team and who's going to do the most to make us successful. For me, that's Watkins. I'm not expecting many people to share that feeling and I'm OK with that. I'm not expecting us to draft Watkins. That's just who I would draft if it were me.

A lot of really great pass-rushers have come in later rounds... Jared Allen, for example. So I'm not hung up on only getting a pass-rusher, a passer, or a pass-protector at 1-1 like a lot of people are.

And like I said, I expect us to draft Clowney and I'll get behind whoever it is we pick and I'll root for that player to be successful and for our FO to have made the right choice.

But that doesn't mean that Clowney is without warts and that those warts don't scare the crap out of me.

 

[TheMatrix31]

I don't want anyone who has a questionable motor. I've seen too many athletes across all sports completely fail because of it.

If he's gonna be great, let him be great for someone else.

 

[Dan B.]

Montgomery seems like a really bad comparison. Dude was smoking pot in a hotel bathroom. Why would you think that is more likely to happen with Clowney than a guy who's already been arrested for pot?

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Montgomery seems like a really bad comparison. Dude was smoking pot in a hotel bathroom. Why would you think that is more likely to happen with Clowney than a guy who's already been arrested for pot?

Sam Montgomery's questions coming out of college were motor-related, not drug related. He ended up being a pot-smoker but that wasn't why he dropped in the draft. He was up-front and honest about not being as excited to play lower level competition.

 

[IDEXAN]

I really think it's starting to get a little ridiculous when comparisons of Clowney to Sam Montgomery are being made. But if we do take Clowney, he's on the field from day one obviously. So would Watkins if he's our first round pick, but who sits ? Not gonna be AJ, so I guess it's gonna be our 1st round pick from last year, unless you want to run tons of sets with 3 WRs ? But isn't O'brien known to want to use lots of formations with a slot-receiver and multiple TEs ?

 

[drs23]

I've never understood the mentality of some people. You're 57 years old and look at how childish you are. You and I aren't even engaging in conversation, yet you feel the need to come in and take pot shots at me? Grow the **** up.

Yes Sir.










Done.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

I really think it's starting to get a little ridiculous when comparisons of Clowney to Sam Montgomery are being made.

Why? Are they both SEC defensive linemen with questions about there motors and desire?

But if we do take Clowney, he's on the field from day one obviously. So would Watkins if he's our first round pick, but who sits ? Not gonna be AJ, so I guess it's gonna be our 1st round pick from last year, unless you want to run tons of sets with 3 WRs ? But isn't O'brien known to want to use lots of formations with a slot-receiver and multiple TEs ?

O'Brien is known for using whatever he has and building an offense around it. They drafted Gronk and Hernandez during his tenure at the Patriots and he crafted an offense around them. But he also had an offense where the top four pass catchers didn't include a TE. If he's got AJ, Watkins, and Hopkins, I'm sure he can find a way to make it work just like Crennel can find a way to make Clowney and Watt work together even if they aren't his prototypical players.

 

[Dan B.]

Clowney never had his S&C coach call him out on twitter. His head coach said he had to tell him to slow down at practice. The vids of him at practice show a guy hitting training sleds so hard he flips them upside down.

Can I go ahead and say that Watkins is going to end up like Peter Warrick? Why not, they are both ACC wide receivers who got into trouble with the law in college.

 

[IDEXAN]

Why? Are they both SEC defensive linemen with questions about there motors and desire?

What do you think about pointing to Aldon Smith and saying "that could be Watkins" ?

O'Brien is known for using whatever he has and building an offense around it. They drafted Gronk and Hernandez during his tenure at the Patriots and he crafted an offense around them. But he also had an offense where the top four pass catchers didn't include a TE. If he's got AJ, Watkins, and Hopkins, I'm sure he can find a way to make it work just like Crennel can find a way to make Clowney and Watt work together even if they aren't his prototypical players.

Exactly, he's known to run sets with multiple TEs. And neither Gronk or Hernandez were first-rounders. And an offense with 3 first round WRs, one being #1 overall and the other being #3 overall at a position that's not a premier position: that's an incredibly mismanagement of resources.

 

[mussop]

There is nothing wrong with Clowneys motor.

 

[ObsiWan]

CND's take on Clowney's bone spurs (thanks Doc!!)

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger
Without knowing the numbers or extent, probably anywhere as an average from 3% to 7%. However, depending on the source of the bone spur forming, such as an/the underlying arthritic condition, or the development of chronic nerve irritation/trauma........continuing chronic, possibly progressive pain is fairly common......in as many as 50%. However, it is the extent of continuing pain and tenderness that would dictate if it has significant effect on performance. Keep in mind that bone spurs do not go away or get better, nor does the underlying pathology, such as arthritis or plantar fasciitis........it will only get worse with time.........making surgery less predictable. Also there are no assurances that more bone spurs don't show up in the future. Clowney would probably have been much wiser to have addressed the bone spur(s) as they emerged, much earlier in his football career.

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger
For those interested, if Clowney has his surgery right after the Draft, depending on how extensive the surgery required is on the bone spurs, his return to running could be anywhere from 6-8 weeks. But expectations for him to be back to full speed with great explosiveness and ability to make sudden changes of speed and direction could easily be from 2-3 months (again depending on the extent of his surgery). If he agrees to have surgery (and I would not pick him if he didn't), he will still have the benefit of a full TC to participate in the system, and be ready at full go for the regular season, barring any complications

So, what do you think Clowney would do? ...get the surgery or not.
Could bone spur pain be the cause of him seemingly "taking plays off"??

 

[The Pencil Neck]

What do you think about pointing to Aldon Smith and saying "that could be Watkins" ?

I have absolutely nothing wrong with that. I have nothing wrong with pointing at Ricky Williams and saying "that could be Watkins".

Because... it could.

OTOH, it could be Clowney, too.

Exactly, he's known to run sets with multiple TEs. And neither Gronk or Hernandez were first-rounders. And an offense with 3 first round WRs, one being #1 overall and the other being #3 overall at a position that's not a premier position: that's an incredibly mismanagement of resources.

He's also known to run 3 WR sets. When the Patriots drafted two TE's THAT was considered a mismanagement of resources. Except for the Texans, teams didn't do that. Teams that were wanting a good passing game didn't draft two TEs in the same draft and expect both of them to see the field. What was creative there was that OB (or someone in that Patriots organization) saw a way to put some pieces together in a way that most people didn't use them and thereby create mismatches that most teams could not handle.

It would be the same thing to get two premier WRs and combine them with another very good WR. Teams would not be able to match up.

And that's what this is about. Get the best talent you can and create matchups that other people can't handle.

Now tell me all about how Clowney is going to play McGinest's role in RAC's defense THEN go back and look at how many sacks McGinest got in RAC's defense. Because that's just as much of a mismanagement of talent as Watkins if not more.

 

[IDEXAN]

It would be the same thing to get two premier WRs and combine them with another very good WR. Teams would not be able to match up.

To have an offense where your #2 WR is either the #1 overall from the current Draft or your highest paid player on the whole team and the best player on the offense is just crazy. Don't you get that my friend ? There's too many other positions, too many other areas of the team with holes that need attention when it comes to cap resources. WR is already, right now today probably our strongest position area on the whole team.

 

[TexansSeminole]

To have an offense where your #2 WR is either the #1 overall from the current Draft or your highest paid player on the whole team and the best player on the offense is just crazy. Don't you get that my friend ? There's too many other positions, too many other areas of the team with holes that need attention when it comes to cap resources. WR is already, right now today probably our strongest position area on the whole team.

That may be true but it isn't as if we have a superior WR corps. In fact, we are probably about average. Most teams have depth at receiver, we have none. Every position on this teams needs upgrading.

 

[leebigeztx]

Just for the record, I think Evans was the best player in cfb last yr. He was basically unguardable as I've seen a wr since calvin johnson. Will he run those jet sweeps or return punts? Nope,but he snatches everything around him,breaks all kinds of tackles,and it doesn't matter who's on him. Unless u have richard sherman or peterson on him all the time,he's alwas open.

 

[powda]

2500 replies, almost 58 thousand views. I want this thread revisited in a few years when we all know what kinda pro Clowney is. Accountability is a b*tch sometimes.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

To have an offense where your #2 WR is either the #1 overall from the current Draft or your highest paid player on the whole team and the best player on the offense is just crazy. Don't you get that my friend ? There's too many other positions, too many other areas of the team with holes that need attention when it comes to cap resources. WR is already, right now today probably our strongest position area on the whole team.

Behind the concept of drafting BPA is that you never know what's going to happen AND you don't shy away from making a strength stronger.

We don't know how much longer we're going to have AJ. He's approaching his mid-30's and his career today is as long as Torry Holt's entire career. I'd rather have AJ's replacement ready and waiting and trained by AJ. Having two guys who could be the #1 receiver can work really well... just like the Colts had Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne or when the Niners had Jerry Rice and John Taylor or when the Steelers had Stallworth and Swann.

Granted, Hopkins might already have that dual #1 spot. And as I've said over and over, I don't expect them to draft this way. But I think with the creative mind that OB has, he could make it work. Just like he made having two TEs and some small quick slot receivers work for NE.

To this day, I would have drafted Patrick Willis even though we had Demeco Ryans. Because in that draft, the BPA when we drafted was Willis.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

CND's take on Clowney's bone spurs (thanks Doc!!)



So, what do you think Clowney would do? ...get the surgery or not.
Could bone spur pain be the cause of him seemingly "taking plays off"??

I posted on this as being my impression about 2 weeks ago. Note that this piece was written BEFORE the 2013 season. I have virtually no doubt that these bone spurs had an adverse affect on his 2013 performance.

Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger
Here's a Sept 2013 article I just came across, about his problem and that surgery should have been entertained before now.

How Jadeveon Clowney got here

By Barrett Sallee , SEC Football Lead Writer
Sep 15, 2013

As it turns out, maybe South Carolina defensive end Jadeveon Clowney isn't 100 percent after all.

The junior standout had four tackles and a sack in the Gamecocks' 35-25 win over Vanderbilt in Columbia, S.C. on Saturday night, but that wasn't the big story.

Clowney told reporters following the game that he will undergo surgery after the season to remove bone spurs from his right foot.

"It's painful," Clowney said according to Chase Goodbread of NFL.com. "I'm out here playing on it, though, so I'm just trying to give everything I've got on it. Who knows what's going to happen out there? It doesn't really bother me when I am out there much. It's just builds up pain. The more I keep going on it, the more it bothers me."

Clowney's foot has caused him problems in the past, including last season when it forced him out of the Gamecocks' win over Wofford in November. But head coach Steve Spurrier had no idea it was this serious, according to Ryan Wood of the Charleston (S.C) Post and Courier.



Quote:

Ryan Wood @rwood_SC

Spurrier on Clowney's foot: "If we had known he needed surgery in the offseason, he would've gotten it."


1:05 PM - 15 Sep 2013

So what should Clowney do?

Obviously he wants to help his team win and get back to the SEC Championship Game, which has eluded him during his first two seasons with the program. But the sure-fire No. 1 draft pick has to keep his future in mind.

At this point in time, being picked should be contingent upon having surgery immediately after the Draft. Otherwise, I don't believe you will be getting the player you are at least hoping you are getting.

 

[drs23]

That may be true but it isn't as if we have a superior WR corps. In fact, we are probably about average. Most teams have depth at receiver, we have none. Every position on this teams needs upgrading.

True words there TS.

That's why I'm in the Kahlil Mack corner. I know he comes from a small school but he dominated. He'll do the same as a Pro.

Probably won't happen but I'd sure be aboard. We need pass rushers and I think he'll be a better Pro than JC. I'll sure be watching no matter where he ends up.

 

[Playoffs]

I want this thread revisited in a few years when we all know what kinda pro Clowney is. Accountability is a b*tch sometimes.

Which member shall we hold "accountable" for drafting Clowney? Which one is writing his name on the draft card?

I'm pretty sure no one at 2 Reliant Park will be consulting anyone here on TexansTalk before selecting TB or Bortles or Manziel or Mack or Clowney..... no matter how "loud" they type.

 

[powda]

Which member shall we hold "accountable" for drafting Clowney? Which one writing his name on the draft card?

I'm pretty sure no one at 2 Reliant Park will be consulting anyone here on TexansTalk before selecting TB or Bortles or Manziel or Mack or Clowney..... no matter how "loud" they type.

Professionally I think accountability will happen on it's own. Here however pundits will continue to act as if their sh*t dont stink. Plenty of people here moonlight as experts. Truth is many don't watch film or know thing one about any of these guys. So why fight tooth and nail about it? I have my favorites but I dont pretend to be an expert.

In the words of Doc..."it's the reckoning."

 

[JB]

Professionally I think accountability will happen on it's own. Here however pundits will continue to act as if their sh*t dont stink. Plenty of people here moonlight as experts. Truth is many don't watch film or know thing one about any of these guys. So why fight tooth and nail about it? I have my favorites but I dont pretend to be an expert.

In the words of Doc..."it's the reckoning."

That would be me

 

[Nitrofish]

So it's not fair to think that his behavior will stay the same and he will continue to look out for #1 but it is fair to assume that he is just going to up and change that behavior when he gets drafted? What about his contract? The second contract is bigger than the rookie contract. He's going to have to protect himself if he doesn't want to blow that knee and get lowballed on that big contract.

The reason coaches protect players is because the players will not protect themselves. They will go 100% for their teammates when they are on the field. The only way to protect them is to get them off of the field. If a guy is only worried about his pro future then that is a huge red flag to me. That says he is a me first guy and will always put himself above his team.

As a player, there is nothing worse than looking at the guy next to you and not knowing if you can count on him or not, regardless of how much physical talent he has.

Players get injured all the time in every way imaginable. Half assing it out there isn't going to protect you from something you can't see coming.

You can tell the people judging to suck it if you wish. But with millions of dollars on the line, the people making the decisions are judging everything. If they don't care about this then it's obviously no big deal. If they do care, then Clowney only has himself to blame.

Not true, he is not going to be offered a large second contract unless he performs on his rookie contract. That was my point. He was not going to be picked any higher than #1, so what was the point of risking injury by going all out in his final season of college?

Obviously it is not bothering the people who make those decisions, because no matter who might be picking #1 overall this year had it not been the Texans, they too would be selecting Clowney so it seems like the only people who have issues are those who like other players better, but from my point of view, that is not anyone in the pro's. If the Texans fail to draft Clowney, the Rams will get all kinds of trade offers for the chance to get him, on that you can bet.

While there are no guarantees you will not get injured going half speed, it certainly reduces the chances. If I drive to work every day at 120MPH, what are the chances I am going to have an accident as opposed to if I drive at half that speed? Nothing in life is guaranteed, but you can mitigate much of the risk by taking precautions.

If Clowney were the kind of guy you describe him as, I am sure his teammates would shun him, and surely there would be rumors of players saying he is selfish and cannot be counted on, but that is not the case, so you are injecting that in an attempt to devalue the player you do not want drafted. In fact all of the issues that are supposed to be Clowney's warts seem to be more propaganda than facts, and our own head coach said he has no issues with Clowney's work ethics.

 

[thunderkyss]

Clowney, Mingo, Aldon Smith


How do you rank those three players?

 

[thunderkyss]

Here however pundits will continue to act as if their sh*t dont stink. Plenty of people here moonlight as experts. Truth is many don't watch film or know thing one about any of these guys. So why fight tooth and nail about it? I have my favorites but I dont pretend to be an expert.

It's all good.... we're just hanging, having fun. Being guys.

 

[powda]

It's all good.... we're just hanging, having fun. Being guys.

That's cool. I get it. Having an opinion and defending a stance is natural. I know some posters here who have proven again and again they watch game film. I lend an ear to all common sense opinions but I value the opinions of those I know watch film just a bit more. At the end of the day all I expect is accountability. Let history prove right and wrong. Let's revisit this thread in a few years.

In the meantime I dont expect the conversation to stop. I only hope the pissing matches and people talking down to one another slows down. We're all subject to mistake...and no one knows sh*t.

 

[dalemurphy]

Here's the question I would need answered before considering drafting Clowney?:

If the Texans were willing to draft a difference-maker on defense that would require some schematic adjustment by Romeo Crennel with 1.1, why wouldn't they take the best player in the draft, with the best attitude and work ethic?: that's Aaron Donald (not Clowney), by the way.

 

[steelbtexan]

Here's the question I would need answered before considering drafting Clowney?:

If the Texans were willing to draft a difference-maker on defense that would require some schematic adjustment by Romeo Crennel with 1.1, why wouldn't they take the best player in the draft, with the best attitude and work ethic?: that's Aaron Donald (not Clowney), by the way.

Do you really want to run a 4-3?

That's the only defense Donald fits in.

I think it's debatable that Donald is the best defensive player in this draft. This is a very good defensive draft. Mosley for instance is going to be a steal for somebody.

 

[dalemurphy]

Do you really want to run a 4-3?

That's the only defense Donald fits in.

I think it's debatable that Donald is the best defensive player in this draft. This is a very good defensive draft. Mosley for instance is going to be a steal for somebody.

No, I don't. However, drafting Clowney would ensure that we would run much more 1 gap defense that Crennel believes in or ever intended to run... I see no other way to make effective use of both Clowney and Watt. So, my point is, if we are going to change the defensive system, let's get the low risk stud and not some physical freak that only had 3 sacks this year and is below average vs. the run... occupying an elephant position which could already be filled by two other great athletes: Mercilus and Watt.

 

[IDEXAN]

Here's the question I would need answered before considering drafting Clowney?:

If the Texans were willing to draft a difference-maker on defense that would require some schematic adjustment by Romeo Crennel with 1.1, why wouldn't they take the best player in the draft, with the best attitude and work ethic?: that's Aaron Donald (not Clowney), by the way.

Aaron Donald is a stud, and I think he'll be a real impact player for whoever drafts him. But he's not an edge rusher, he's a defensive lineman who plays on the inside, whether it's in a 4-3 or 3-4, just as JJ does and we've got to get more pressure from the outside/edge because the production by Mercilus and
Reed have fallen short of whats needed.

 

[Texian]

Here's the question I would need answered before considering drafting Clowney?:

If the Texans were willing to draft a difference-maker on defense that would require some schematic adjustment by Romeo Crennel with 1.1, why wouldn't they take the best player in the draft, with the best attitude and work ethic?: that's Aaron Donald (not Clowney), by the way.

Bingo! It doesn't take a genius to do the simple arithmetic:

Jadevon Clowney: http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/515821/jadeveon-clowney (see 2011,12, 13)

vs

Aaron Donald: http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/502393/aaron-donald (see 2010,11,12,13)

vs

Jeremiah Attaochu: http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/500209/jeremiah-attaochu (see 2010,11,12,13)

It doesn't take long to call the roll, Clowney gets beat in almost every instance.

 

[mussop]

Bingo! It doesn't take a genius to do the simple arithmetic:

Jadevon Clowney: http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/515821/jadeveon-clowney (see 2011,12, 13)

vs

Aaron Donald: http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/502393/aaron-donald (see 2010,11,12,13)

vs

Jeremiah Attaochu: http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/500209/jeremiah-attaochu (see 2010,11,12,13)

It doesn't take long to call the roll, Clowney gets beat in almost every instance.

So stats at all that matters?

 

[Dan B.]

So stats at all that matters?

Nah what matters is Clowney played in the SECSECSEC -- the toughest conference of all.

 

[Say Watt]

Nah what matters is Clowney played in the SECSECSEC -- the toughest conference of all.

I'm sure there's a Manziel argument to be made in there somewhere...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Marshall]

I don't want to speak for cak as he will SURELY go out of his way to correct anyone he thinks is wrong , but I dont believe he's attacking the player...only the concept presented which suggests since Watt is a high effort player he can instill that in Clowney. EVERY team has high effort players and athletically gifted players who are lazy. If those effort players dont stop people from being lazy on other teams, why should it work here? Why would Watt who plays a different position then Clowney's here (de vs olb) be anymore effective then putting Clowney second string to an undrafted free agent who plays 100 miles an hour? I like Clowney and prefer us to draft him over one of the qb's , but I dont subscribe to the ideal of Watt's presence effecting Clowney's effort. Could it happen? Sure. But I wouldn't argue for one guy based on another players effort.

The BIG difference between Watt and the College high effort guys is that Watt is the MAN in Houston and Clowney won't be unless he gives the High Motor effort. He'll either get with the program or get traded to some other desperate team like Buffalo. The expectation of professionalism in the training and on the field varies with every team. The Great teams have the great habits away from the field as well as on it.

 

[Marshall]

Near as I can tell Clowney is the only player in this Draft that one or more teams might consider moving up for ? If that's the case and assuming the Texans would like the opportunity to entertain offers for their 1.1, shouldn't the Texans by all appearances/reports (including "leaks") have every intention of drafting Clowney ?

I love a guy who thinks like a GOOD GM.

 

[steelbtexan]

Which member shall we hold "accountable" for drafting Clowney? Which one is writing his name on the draft card?

I'm pretty sure no one at 2 Reliant Park will be consulting anyone here on TexansTalk before selecting TB or Bortles or Manziel or Mack or Clowney..... no matter how "loud" they type.

I don't know if McNair will hold anybody accountable. His track record says he wont.

I'm almost positive Smith wont be held accountable again.

 

[Texian]

I don't know if McNair will hold anybody accountable. His track record says he wont.

I'm almost positive Smith wont be held accountable again.

The signs are beginning to show that the person to be held MOST ACCOUNTABLE is none other than Bob McNair himself.

 

[Texian]

So stats at all that matters?

I'm sure you will quickly dismiss all stats or have convenient excuses readily available to discount any and all stats, as is your tendency. You certainly have those prerogatives to do so.

 

[markn]

Talk on 790 that TB could fall out of the 1st round. Clowney followed by TB at 2.1 would have sounded like an impossibly good haul a month ago. Sounds like a distinct possibility now and to my mind would be potentially amazing.

 

[leebigeztx]

So stats at all that matters?

In college where you play against future lawyers,barbers,and bartenders, id imagine you could produce at an average level. We've never had a guy rated so high with such a piss poor last yr. That doesn't bother anyone but me?

 

[steelbtexan]

No, I don't. However, drafting Clowney would ensure that we would run much more 1 gap defense that Crennel believes in or ever intended to run... I see no other way to make effective use of both Clowney and Watt. So, my point is, if we are going to change the defensive system, let's get the low risk stud and not some physical freak that only had 3 sacks this year and is below average vs. the run... occupying an elephant position which could already be filled by two other great athletes: Mercilus and Watt.

Mercilus s a great athlete?

I get that you don't want Smith to pick Clowney but either

A. Your making stuff up to support your case
b. Have an unhealthy infatuation with Mercilus.

I do believe Mercilus would be more effective on 3rd and longs with Watt/Clowney.

 

[Say Watt]

Mercilus s a great athlete?

I get that you don't want Smith to pick Clowney but either

A. Your making stuff up to support your case
b. Have an unhealthy infatuation with Mercilus.

I do believe Mercilus would be more effective on 3rd and longs with Watt/Clowney.

Well to be totally fair, their combines weren't THAT much different.

Whitney Mercilus Combine Profile

Jadeveon Clowney Combine Profile

So while Clowney ran about .1 seconds faster on the 40 yard dash and the 20 yard shuttle, Mercilus performed more reps on the bench press and was faster in the 3 cone drill. I won't touch on the broad jump or the vertical jump, as neither really have much of an effect on a DL/LB. Also, their height and weights at the combine were both very close as well.

Now that I think about it, I really don't see what the major difference is between Clowney and Mercilus, except for the hit against the Michigan running back.

 

[rmartin65]

So while Clowney ran about .1 seconds faster on the 40 yard dash and the 20 yard shuttle, Mercilus performed more reps on the bench press and was faster in the 3 cone drill. I won't touch on the broad jump or the vertical jump, as neither really have much of an effect on a DL/LB. Also, their height and weights at the combine were both very close as well.

That could not be more wrong. They measure explosiveness, which is very important to edge rushers. Especially the vertical.

 

[mussop]

In college where you play against future lawyers,barbers,and bartenders, id imagine you could produce at an average level. We've never had a guy rated so high with such a piss poor last yr. That doesn't bother anyone but me?

Nope!

 

[Texian]

I won't touch on the broad jump or the vertical jump, as neither really have much of an effect on a DL/LB. Also, their height and weights at the combine were both very close as well.

Now that I think about it, I really don't see what the major difference is between Clowney and Mercilus, except for the hit against the Michigan running back.

The vertical and broad are two of the most athletically inclined test they do at the combine. Those two drills show great explosion or lack thereof. Do they have a powerful first step or just average and ordinary? The vertical and broad are good indicators for determining those factors.

 

[dalemurphy]

Mercilus s a great athlete?

I get that you don't want Smith to pick Clowney but either

A. Your making stuff up to support your case
b. Have an unhealthy infatuation with Mercilus.

I do believe Mercilus would be more effective on 3rd and longs with Watt/Clowney.

Just because Mercilus actually produced in college, doesn't mean he lacks athleticism. I see very little that physically separates Clowney from Mercilus. What do you see differently?

 

[leebigeztx]

The vertical and broad are two of the most athletically inclined test they do at the combine. Those two drills show great explosion or lack thereof. Do they have a powerful first step or just average and ordinary? The vertical and broad are good indicators for determining those factors.

Its the explosion index. Broad jump+vertical+bench = 70 is an explosive player. Its not the end all,just moreso to gauge the kind of athlete you're dealing with.

Example is clowney. 37 vert+ 10ft broad + 23 bench =70

Mario- 40 vert + 10ft broad + 35 bench =85

 

[Say Watt]

I appreciate the correction on the vertical and broad jump. Thanks for educating me on that aspect.

No doubt, Clowney is the superior athlete, but I don't see how the extra .1 seconds in the 40, a slower 3 cone, less bench press reps, and a lackluster junior season equal to a can't miss prospect like many of you are making him out to be. I just don't see it. The post above comparing Mario and Clowney shows that.


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