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Shane Cardin, QB, ECU

Carden is a stud. I keep trying to find something not to like and I just can't seem to.

Played high school ball here in Houston. Recruited to UH as a walk on but never offered a scholarship. Only scholarship offers were from ECU and Harvard. Oops.
 
bah007 said:
Carden is a stud. I keep trying to find something not to like and I just can't seem to.

Played high school ball here in Houston. Recruited to UH as a walk on but never offered a scholarship. Only scholarship offers were from ECU and Harvard. Oops.
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He is a WR best friend. I haven't seen anyone who places the ball in the most optimum place for the WR to catch and run as Carden does.
 
Pollardized said:
Better than the GREAT Blake Bortles????? :mcnugget:
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Maybe so, but Bortles like Brady and Montana in college was "The Comeback Kid". Carden did come from behind in the 2nd half tonight for the win. That's good to see. And like Bortles, Carden is taking his team to heights his team has never been. And as I type this it looks like FLA QB Driskell will cost his team another game.
 
One concern I saw watching Carden tonight is he made a couple of sideline throws where I wondered if if they would have been INTs on Sunday.
 
steelbtexan said:
Carden has a Schaub type arm.

Great college QB though.
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From what I have seen so far Carden is quicker and more accurate than Schaub. I've seen Carden throw it 60 yds in the air so I'm not worried about his arm.

Of all the 2015 draft eligible QBs I've watched this year Carden has the best footwork, quickest release, best touch and ball placement.
 
Texian said:
It's about time this guy gets his own thread. He may be the best QB in this year's draft class. Great touch and accuracy. So far I haven't seen any better.

Shane Carden, 6'2" 221 lb. #5 (from Houston, Texas)

Plays tonight at 6:00PM on ESPNU

Bio: http://www.ecupirates.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/shane_carden_666506.html

Stats: http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/500938/shane-carden
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1tk6qF.AuSt.156.jpeg


Stats look pretty good.

I might try to watch a bit of the game.
 
revan said:
Some highlights

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGZVKLiIxQ8
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One concern that I have with Carden is that he has quite a long wind up, especially on deep throw downfield; ie., he pulls the ball back a bit too far away from his body.

If you slow down the video, you can see that he opens too wide on those occasions.
Whether he can get by with it in the pro, I don't know.
But every 1/10th or 1/8th of a second in different (various) aspects of a delivery helps.

I'm not seeing him as a first round prospect at the moment.
 
76Texan said:
One concern that I have with Carden is that he has quite a long wind up, especially on deep throw downfield; ie., he pulls the ball back a bit too far away from his body.

If you slow down the video, you can see that he opens too wide on those occasions.
Whether he can get by with it in the pro, I don't know.
But every 1/10th or 1/8th of a second in different (various) aspects of a delivery helps.

I'm not seeing him as a first round prospect at the moment.
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This years Jimmy Garoppolo!
 
From my perspective I am not sure there is another QB out there who is eligible for the 2015 draft who is as well coached as Shane Carden. He holds the ball with both hands at shoulder level. (will reduce fumbles). When he decides to throw he cocks the ball behind his ear with a high release and gets the ball out very quickly (less batted balls). I haven't seen anyone who places the ball so well for a WR to catch and run (less INTs). He has great footwork and sets his feet well, left big toe pointing at his target (why he's so accurate). He steps in to almost every throw with full weight on his left side (why he's so accurate and few INTs). When he does throw on the run he's almost as accurate which says he has good hand eye coordination and a good athlete.

The one thing I haven't seen from Mr. Carden is how well he performs under pressure. That I would like to see. The knock on Mr. Garoppolo was that he cradled under pressure.
 
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Carden certainly seems to have the best consistent ball placement of the guys I've seen this year.

Very few people seem to talk about ball placement as a key QB trait, but I put it right up there at the top. Carden can throw guys open and hit contested throws because of where he puts the ball.

One of our biggest problems this year is that our guys aren't getting separation and Fitzpatrick can't throw them open. That's one of the things I loved so much about Luck. He didn't play with great athletes at Stanford and had to make tough throws all the time to contested receivers. Now he's at Indy and has athletic mismatches like Hilton and Allen to throw to and they're tearing it up.
 
WolverineFan said:
Carden certainly seems to have the best consistent ball placement of the guys I've seen this year.

Very few people seem to talk about ball placement as a key QB trait, but I put it right up there at the top. Carden can throw guys open and hit contested throws because of where he puts the ball.

One of our biggest problems this year is that our guys aren't getting separation and Fitzpatrick can't throw them open. That's one of the things I loved so much about Luck. He didn't play with great athletes at Stanford and had to make tough throws all the time to contested receivers. Now he's at Indy and has athletic mismatches like Hilton and Allen to throw to and they're tearing it up.
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Yep, I remember Montana discussing Walsh as a his coach and what he was like to play for. Joe said Coach Walsh was stickler for ball placement and he demanded that passes be in exact location for a WR to catch it and locations changed with each route run by the WR.
 
what do you guys think about his arm strength..Roto

"Carden doesn't have an elite arm and he has some mechanical flaws, but he shows high football intelligence and toughness with enough talent to potentially carve out a Bruce Gradkowski-type career in the NFL." Brugler wrote. The 6-foot-2, 218-pound Carden had a monster performance versus North Carolina, leading the Pirates to a 70-41 win. Carden was 30-for-48 with 438 yards passing, four touchdowns though the air, two rushing touchdowns on the ground and one interception. Brugler notes that Carden "is very comfortable in the Pirates' shotgun spread attack and sees the field well to distribute the rock to the weapons around him."
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Texian said:
Yep, I remember Montana discussing Walsh as a his coach and what he was like to play for. Joe said Coach Walsh was stickler for ball placement and he demanded that passes be in exact location for a WR to catch it and locations changed with each route run by the WR.
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The location should also change depending on route coverage.
 
badboy said:
what do you guys think about his arm strength..Roto
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I have been following Dane Brugler since Chad Rueter left NFL Draft Scout. Sadly I hated to see Rueter go he had a good eye for talent. Brugler is new and his initial evaluations were disappointing and often off the mark. Brugler's evaluations got so bad at one point that I that I unfollowed him on twitter and completely took him off all my timelines. He became a waste of my time. I had to do the same with Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah. Jeremiah a former scout who was fired from 3 NFL scouting jobs in less than 6 years and now part of the B team on NFLN.

To answer your question, Carden does not have an Elway, Farve, Stafford, Cutler type arm.
 
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For those who would like to see Shane Carden perform LIVE, he's playing tonight, ECU vs Connecticut at 6PM on ESPNU.
 
Texian said:
I have been following Dane Brugler since Chad Rueter left NFL Draft Scout. Sadly I hated to see Rueter go he had a good eye for talent. Brugler is new and his initial evaluations were disappointing and often off the mark. Brugler's evaluations got so bad at one point that I that I unfollowed him on twitter and completely took him off all my timelines. He became a waste of my time. I had to do the same with Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah. Jeremiah a former scout who was fired from 3 NFL scouting jobs in less than 6 years and now part of the B team on NFLN.

To answer your question, Carden does not have an Elway, Farve, Stafford, Cutler type arm.
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thanks,try to watch tonight and you did say he has thrown 60 yds. I still think Savage can be the guy but we could draft a lower round guy to replace Mallett.
 
badboy said:
. I still think Savage can be the guy but we could draft a lower round guy to replace Mallett.
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We've seen way too many QB flops for me to not want to bring in a QB next season. I don't care if he's considered one of the top guys, or if OB just sees something he likes.

I like Savage, but if a guy like Hundley or Winston caught my eye I would not be opposed to taking him. If a guy like Mariota falls within a reasonable distance from our pick I don't mind going up to get him, if there's something you (you being OB) like.

Then maybe I'm lucky (or don't know what the hell I'm talking about) but all the guys I liked were available in the 4th & later. I wouldn't have had a problem if we took McCarron, Mettenberg, or even Murray after taking Savage.

& still take a QB next year if I really liked one of them. So what if that means I'm throwing away last year's supplemental 4th, or 6th.... the position is that important & to me, that's what it means to make it my #1 priority. Not taking a guy in the first because he fits the mold of the current gad.
 
thunderkyss said:
We've seen way too many QB flops for me to not want to bring in a QB next season. I don't care if he's considered one of the top guys, or if OB just sees something he likes.

I like Savage, but if a guy like Hundley or Winston caught my eye I would not be opposed to taking him. If a guy like Mariota falls within a reasonable distance from our pick I don't mind going up to get him, if there's something you (you being OB) like.

Then maybe I'm lucky (or don't know what the hell I'm talking about) but all the guys I liked were available in the 4th & later. I wouldn't have had a problem if we took McCarron, Mettenberg, or even Murray after taking Savage.

& still take a QB next year if I really liked one of them. So what if that means I'm throwing away last year's supplemental 4th, or 6th.... the position is that important & to me, that's what it means to make it my #1 priority. Not taking a guy in the first because he fits the mold of the current gad.
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My concern is franchise QB does not exist after Mariota and Winston. I was willing to select the latter but he keeps doing stupid stuff.
 
badboy said:
My concern is franchise QB does not exist after Mariota and Winston. I was willing to select the latter but he keeps doing stupid stuff.
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Who knows?? There have been plenty exceptions to the rule & even more 1st round flops. I'm not saying that we should only look at 2nd rounders or late rounders... just that it's more important (I think) for a coach & QB to click. If the current trend is for the athletic spread QBs to get 1st round grades & the traditional big pocket passers to get late round grades... stay true to what you believe & don't mind the hype.

Now I don't know Mariotta from Adam, but I'm telling my scouting team what I'm looking for, how I grade QBs & if he fits, great, I want him. If he doesn't, that's fine too.

Winston, I could care less about the stuff that's been in the news. I'll sit down & talk to him before I draft him in the first round & if I get the feeling that I can't trust him (like, maybe he did rape that girl) I'm not drafting him. But from what I've seen from him talking to the media, I don't think he's the kind of person I want to spend hours with talking about football.

& if I don't feel like there are any QBs in the draft that fits what I like, I'll probably be more aggressive in negotiations with Mallet, or try to trade for a guy I do like..... maybe Nassib in New York.
 
thunderkyss said:
Who knows?? There have been plenty exceptions to the rule & even more 1st round flops. I'm not saying that we should only look at 2nd rounders or late rounders... just that it's more important (I think) for a coach & QB to click. If the current trend is for the athletic spread QBs to get 1st round grades & the traditional big pocket passers to get late round grades... stay true to what you believe & don't mind the hype.

Now I don't know Mariotta from Adam, but I'm telling my scouting team what I'm looking for, how I grade QBs & if he fits, great, I want him. If he doesn't, that's fine too.

Winston, I could care less about the stuff that's been in the news. I'll sit down & talk to him before I draft him in the first round & if I get the feeling that I can't trust him (like, maybe he did rape that girl) I'm not drafting him. But from what I've seen from him talking to the media, I don't think he's the kind of person I want to spend hours with talking about football.

& if I don't feel like there are any QBs in the draft that fits what I like, I'll probably be more aggressive in negotiations with Mallet, or try to trade for a guy I do like..... maybe Nassib in New York.
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I think you probably hit the nail on the head with one small exception. From what I gather and my opinion, I am not sure that Winston, much like JaMarcus Russell, doesn't care much for spending hours talking football, especially in a learning training atmosphere.
 
Alright it's Carden Time! He's a Houston boy. Anyone familiar with his high school days?

FYI - ECU also has some pretty good players on their D.

Early Notes: Clearly Carden has done the trash can in corner of the end zone drill a lot. He has it down to perfection. Ball placement is impressive. His two TD passes, he threw it where only his WR could catch it.

#54 is a fairly stout and strong NT.
 
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Pollardized said:
Bad throw and bad idea on that INT.
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Yep, had WR open but threw falling back and floated it over the WR head. If you can't step in to the throw get rid of it.

Carden has become a little sloppy in the 2nd quarter, throwing more of his back foot. When he does that his passes become erratic and often go incomplete.
 
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Texian said:
Yep, had WR open but threw falling back and floated it over the WR head. If you can't step in to the throw get rid of it.

Carden has become a little sloppy in the 2nd quarter, throwing more of his back foot. When he does that his passes become erratic and often go incomplete.
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That's what I'm seeing too. Honestly I haven't been as impressed as I was with video highlights of him.
 
Pollardized said:
That's what I'm seeing too. Honestly I haven't been as impressed as I was with video highlights of him.
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I think Carden does a good job with managing and directing the no huddle hurry up. However ECU offense tries to go to quick and when they do they make a lot of mistakes. IMO if they would just slow it down just a tad, including Carden they would be more efficient and execute better including Carden. To much going on to quick for everyone involved. I think the coach is trying run a 120 offensive plays. Carden looked better on ECU first possession 2nd half to take the lead. He's still making some good throws. ECU penalties have really hurt them. I have been impressed with how Carden has made all the calls in the no huddle hurry up. Carden is very Cerebral.Unfortunately for Carden is #9 and #80 aren't that good. #2 Hardy is the best thing Carden has going for him.

Remember highlights are the 10 best plays of game. If I took Carden's 10 best throws in this game you'd be impressed. Highlights will always be better than watching a complete game.

Dayum #9 Worthy has dropped more than he has caught.

They need to put #9 Worthy on the bench, he has killed the last two drives with drops and penalties. Worthy is costing ECU this ball game.

Worthy didn't figure in the last possession and ECU was able to get a FG.
 
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We should be looking for an accurate (not just because he throws a ton of short passes) QB with at minimum, a slightly above average arm. One that is comfortable in pressure, with high TD to low INT ratio, decent avg per pass, with a good football mind & willing to learn; helps if he has a teaching coach in a pro style offense.

That does not leave many options...
 
badboy said:
We should be looking for an accurate (not just because he throws a ton of short passes) QB with at minimum, a slightly above average arm. One that is comfortable in pressure, with high TD to low INT ratio, decent avg per pass, with a good football mind & willing to learn; helps if he has a teaching coach in a pro style offense.

That does not leave many options...
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I think you and I see much in common. I will have much more tomorrow. I believe he threw 5 50 yd passes tonight. That's a lot. I just say I am more impressed now and not for any reasons already discussed. You briefly touched on it in your post.
 
Texian said:
I think you and I see much in common. I will have much more tomorrow. I believe he threw 5 50 yd passes tonight. That's a lot. I just say I am more impressed now and not for any reasons already discussed. You briefly touched on it in your post.
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look forward to your eval as I did not get game, thought it was on ESPN but not either of two I get. Stats were good although accuracy down and 2 TDs to 1 INT. Highlights showed great catches by Hardy.

I am willing to wait a year while a guy develops on our roster but if Savage not the guy, another year for Carden or anyone else sticks in my throat. I ain't getting younger. We should be getting at least one very good player out of each draft and that didn't happen in 2014..so far. I sometimes think we should trade up with our 2, 3 and 4s each draft to get higher percentage players and use 5 and 6 to hit on depth. Two first rounds and then three day three picks and 2-3 UDFAs plus say one free agent each off season. Hmm even a trade down in first could lead to say three firsts..uh oh there I go again.
 
Just finished watching the replay of the game, thank you watchespn. Wow Texian, you sure have an eye for talent. The kid is going to be a beast in the redzone, that touch that he has on the fade is amazing, you cant teach that. I like how he goes through his progressions and has poise in the pocket. Looking forward to see how this kid finishes off his season.
 
I not only watched but also studied the Connecticut game. With he use of the DVR I was able to study every ECU offense play 3-4 times. What I have concluded is that ECU is not a very good football team. As a result I came away even more impressed with Carden after this game. Three reasons why.

1. ECU is not a well coached team, consistently way to many penalties, poor play calling and to often WR routes on 3rd downs were a 1 yd + short of 1st down marker.

2. Carden does NOT have much in the way of weapons. The receiving corp is not very good with exception of Hardy.

3. The ECU offensive line is not very good. They were dominated by Connecticut and the Huskies were able to pressure Carden the entire game.

The fact that Carden overcomes the above is why I'm more impressed than before.

What I saw that I hadn't seen before.

1. Carden has great pocket awareness. He senses pressure and were it comes from and is very good at avoiding it and extending the play.

2. Carden has a very quick release and that along with his pocket awareness is why he avoids taking sacks.

3. As badboy pointed out above and I concur, IMHO I believe Carden could be even better in another system, even a pro set instead of this go as fast as you can offense he's now running.

The Bad

1. Carden got sloppy in the 2nd quarter, at time he had happy feet and threw several passes off his back foot with poor results.

2. I think part of the reason Carden struggled somewhat is direct result of the pressure applied by Connecticut, the number of dropped passes by Worthy and the penalties by ECU.

If Carden had better WRs, with better coaching and a better OL he would be more impressive than what you're seeing today. The fact that ECU is is 6-1 is very impressive. Without Carden ECU could easily be 2-5.

Just to clarify, IMO I think Carden has been well coached as a QB. However I think ECU as a team over all could be better coached in several phases of the game.
 
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steelbtexan said:
Not as nfty or nowhere near as quick of a release.

I sure wish Rick had drafted Jimmy G in the 2nd rd last yr.
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So you are saying drafting the guy who can't beat out Ben Jones for playing time isn't doing it for you?

Hell I would have been happy if Rick would have moved up in the 3rd and drafted Grop instead of Nix. Pickett was available the entire offseason
 
TEXANRED said:
So you are saying drafting the guy who can't beat out Ben Jones for playing time isn't doing it for you?

Hell I would have been happy if Rick would have moved up in the 3rd and drafted Grop instead of Nix. Pickett was available the entire offseason
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Rick Smith is a real draft wizard.
 
TEXANRED said:
So you are saying drafting the guy who can't beat out Ben Jones for playing time isn't doing it for you?

Hell I would have been happy if Rick would have moved up in the 3rd and drafted Grop instead of Nix. Pickett was available the entire offseason
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I think the Texans thought Garopollo would be there top of 3rd. #65. PATS got him #62. TBH I was surprised also.
 
JB said:
Hindsight is so easy. I don't recall anyone projecting him to go in the 2nd round
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2nd/3rd round grade - ourlads usually ultra conservative when it comes to QB position. translation: middle 2nd to early 3rd. my question is did Texans (Rick Smith) roll the dice & miss?

fyi Tom Savage 7th rd./PFA I would say that's a pretty big gap.
 
beerlover said:
2nd/3rd round grade - ourlads usually ultra conservative when it comes to QB position. translation: middle 2nd to early 3rd. my question is did Texans (Rick Smith) roll the dice & miss?

fyi Tom Savage 7th rd./PFA I would say that's a pretty big gap.
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I never said they were right. I think that the consensus was early 3rd, and once he made it past the Titans there wasn't anyone else that was qb needy. The Pats taking him was a shocker iirc.
 
JB said:
Hindsight is so easy. I don't recall anyone projecting him to go in the 2nd round
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Dig thru my mocks and you will see Jimmy G in the 2nd in most of them. Hence me wishing Smith would've taken Jimmy G in the 2nd. So it really isn't hindsight.
 
steelbtexan said:
Dig thru my mocks and you will see Jimmy G in the 2nd in most of them. Hence me wishing Smith would've taken Jimmy G in the 2nd. So it really isn't hindsight.
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I wanted him also, but thought that XSF was a steal at 2-1 and that Nix was also at 3-19, didn't know a lot about CJ, but he was considered a good pickup at 3-1 wasn't he?
 
JB said:
I wanted him also, but thought that XSF was a steal at 2-1 and that Nix was also at 3-19, didn't know a lot about CJ, but he was considered a good pickup at 3-1 wasn't he?
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As much as I liked X, I would have selected Garoppolo instead.
 
Carden Weekly TV Update:

Temple
Day: Saturday
Date: Nov. 1, 2014
Location: Philadelphia, Pa.
Time: 12:00 p.m. ET/11:00a.m. CT

TV: ESPNews
 
badboy said:
I think the Texans thought Garopollo would be there top of 3rd. #65. PATS got him #62. TBH I was surprised also.
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If they wanted JG they would have traded ahead of NE for next to nothing because they knew BB needed a new backup and he didn't have a 3rd round pick.

JB said:
Hindsight is so easy. I don't recall anyone projecting him to go in the 2nd round
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It was a bit surprising he fell that far into the 2nd as he was the last of the clean top QB prospects.
 
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