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Does Rick Smith still suck?

yes he still sucks

and our roster isn't that good but some how some way IDK how but our team fights and bleeds and wins against teams that are deff more talented then US IMO but ill take it

Our roster isn't good?

On defense: Watt, Clowney, Mercilious, Joseph, Jackson, Johnson, Big man, - That's a pretty damn good defense. Maybe not elite to you, but they're not far from it.

On offense: The jury is out on Oz and the new receivers, but Hopkins and Miller are proven players.

I just don't see how you can make this argument. If you really believe it though, you must think we have one hell of a coach then, because we can't suck at personal and coaching still be winning.
 
At least we ain't Cleveland .
I say he has gotten better since kubiak. This may be the year we forgive him for everything
 
Next draft he must concentrate on OL and also find a replacement for Cushing.

Don't we already have Cushing's replacement in last years 2nd round pick Benardrick McKinney? Drafting OL is a must this upcoming draft. That would be my focal point. Gotta protect your new shiny QB.
 
My 2 cents on Rick Smith. It's not just him sitting in his office looking at players and drafting. He doesn't operate in a vacuum. He has a staff, both player recruitment and in house coaches, and he uses them. The GM and the HC should talk and it seems like they do; Hard Knocks gave us a glimpse of that last year.

Every pick isn't going to be a HoF. Regardless of who pounds the table for a guy, it's a team effort.

In the example of JJ Watt certain people want to say it was Rick's pick while others say it's Wade's pick. Yet they say it was a group effort. From the scout that first saw him, the coach that said this guy could work for us, to the FO that made it happen - no one person is responsible for any pick.


http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/story/_/page/32for32x160410/best-draft-move-every-nfl-team-2011

Houston Texans
In 2011, there was a debate in the building about whether Aldon Smith or J.J. Watt would be the right fit, but when the 11th pick came around, Smith was already gone, the Texans didn't trade up for him and instead took Watt. In the years since, Wade Phillips, who was then the Texans' defensive coordinator, credited Bobby Grier, now the Texans' senior personnel adviser, for advocating for Watt. He has already won three Defensive Player of the Year awards and is easily the best defensive player in franchise history -- perhaps the best player in franchise history. -- Tania Ganguli

Wonder if that will end this once and for all? Probably not...


Wade Phillips Verified account ‏@sonofbum

@taniaganguli Bobby Grier was a very strong supporter of JJ and was also a big influence on the drafting of him-he deserves a lot of credit

With that said, we do a great job of finding UDFA and guys that weren't rated as high. Is there room for improvement? Obviously. Are we in terrible shape? I don't think so. I can guarantee you this though; if Rick Smith were fired today, half the board would be complaining about the next GM by the time the 2017 Draft ended.
 
I guess maybe the real question should be "what are the job responsibilities of the GM and does Rick Smith fulfill those"? I think PapaL is right, it's a group effort in all phases. That's just the way McNair operates. Corporate boardroom mentality. He get's most of the blame here because of his title, but I don't know if anyone can say for sure that he made a sole decision in anything he's done.

One area I have always had a complaint about was the scouting dept he oversees, both pro and college. That seems to have improved the last few years, so I can't find much fault in anything he's done recently.

I know some will always hate him, but it's not an objective hate... it's a subjective hate on the preconceived notion that he hasn't done what they wanted or they want to blame him solely for things that didn't turn out.

We really don't know what goes on in the offices on Kirby other than a few glimpses from Hard Knocks.
 
I've never had a problem with him.

He's managed the cap adequately, found talent that fits the coaches vision (especially churning the bottom of the roster effectively), kept a steady hand at the wheel and brought in 2 high quality QBs when he could.

Agreed. While some criticism has been warranted it has been waaaaaaaaaaay over the top imo. I kept thinking to myself lets at least give some of these picks more than 1 friggin year before we throw Smith under the bus again and again.

Too bad about Nick Martin and Cushing. Not to mention Duane Brown and Watt recoveries.

I think this is our best roster yet but unfortunately we wont get to see its maximum potential this year. However, rarely ever a team does.

Need to continue to beef up the lines next off season.
 

When Rick arrived he was given title of GM, the EVPOFO came later.

I honestly do not believe that McNair is evaluating talent and then telling Smith to get specific players. Nothing about his demeanor in interviews the past 15 years leads me to believe that he's a scout in owner's clothing.

Ed Reed was a McNair decision plain and simple

Fair enough

I just look at the fact that Smith is the teflon man and has really accomplished nothing in a decade. IMHO. A new coaching/scouting staff that is in place seems to certainly have made a difference these last couple of yrs.

BTW, do you think Carr/Clowney were McNair picks? I do.

When Insultingcak goes on attack and accuses you of conjecture and supposition, all that means is he hasn't read or watched the basis of fact. The fact is that Sean Jones has discussed on more than one occasion that McNair was smitten with the idea of Carr being the 'Face of the Franchise". That means that Insultingcak didn't hear those comments so it never happened, doesn't believe Jones or thinks he's a liar.

I'd really like to know with the Clowney pick. That has never really been leaked with anything of substance to suggest if it was Rick, Bob, or OB.

There are times that you have to use some logic and deductive reasoning to come up with the reasonable answer. There were several instances and comments made by McNair that lead you directly to why he choose Clowney. For instance:

Bob McNair: Texans won’t repeat mistakes we made with David Carr
I think the main thing I look back on is that we should have had a veteran quarterback in there,” McNair said. “We should have let him start the season and let David learn what it takes to be an NFL quarterback.”

I don't believe that McNair was acting as a mouth piece for O'Brien or Smith in this instance. OB was a coach at Ga Tech and Smith a Director of Pro personnel in Denver when McNair drafted Carr. The only other plausible option was Bortles and McNair pretty much told us he wasn't going there.

In the example of JJ Watt certain people want to say it was Rick's pick while others say it's Wade's pick. Yet they say it was a group effort. From the scout that first saw him, the coach that said this guy could work for us, to the FO that made it happen - no one person is responsible for any pick.

It was a combination of Bob and Wade. There is video of Wade admitting that McNair offered him the next two 1st RD picks to accept the job of Defense Coordinator and to fix the defense. And on draft day there is video of Wade explaining why he drafted JJ.

The Houston Texans have a failed business model (it certainly has never been proven). Without doing a complete research I don't think there is another similar model currently in the NFL. By this I mean when a head coach is hired with final say on the 53 man roster he usually gets to bring in his personnel ie: Pete Carrol. Rarely if ever is the new head coach forced to accept and work with the front office that was put in place by the fired head coach.
 
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Lol - as if Sean Jones is doing anything more than speculating ... just like you. You constantly state things as fact which are merely your guesswork and distort pictures and statements into your predetermined conclusion. Others are honest enough to admit we know very little about decision making by the Texans.
 
Lol - as if Sean Jones is doing anything more than speculating ... just like you. You constantly state things as fact which are merely your guesswork and distort pictures and statements into your predetermined conclusion. Others are honest enough to admit we know very little about decision making by the Texans.

Not to mention that logic and reasoning are not his strong suit.
 
Along with having an axe to grind?

Exactly, that's where the logic and reasoning go out the window.

With logic you follow the path of real facts no matter what, even if it's not the conclusion you desire.

Texian makes up facts because he wants to further his agenda.
 
And as far as Rick Smith goes I'm not sure where his fault lies.

He seems to change with the coaching staff and I don't know when McNair has told him to do anything specifically.

I do know that I love what the Texans did this offseason and if they can follow up next year and shore this team up we could have a monster on our hands.

I'm excited!
 
It was a combination of Bob and Wade. There is video of Wade admitting that McNair offered him the next two 1st RD picks to accept the job of Defense Coordinator and to fix the defense. And on draft day there is video of Wade explaining why he drafted JJ.

Since when does a scout, Booby Grier, report to the defensive coordinator? Your scenario sounds mighty fishy. Again, group effort.
 
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Lol - as if Sean Jones is doing anything more than speculating ... just like you. You constantly state things as fact which are merely your guesswork and distort pictures and statements into your predetermined conclusion. Others are honest enough to admit we know very little about decision making by the Texans.

Typical insultingcak, hasn't read watched or heard anything but knows all the answers. BTW Jones said he talked to people in the organization at the time who he trust and there is no doubt that McNair was dead set on drafting Carr. Carr even admitted that part of his problem in Houston was he was spending far to much time trying to be the face of the franchise and not enough time trying to be the QB. But hey don't let this stop you, you're on a roll or at least you think you're. :)

Let's just agree to say that you're using your very own conjecture and supposition on what you think Sean Jones knows or doesn't even though you didn't hear his comments. :)
 
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Rick Smith has made his full share of mistakes. He's also had to deal with what I hope isn't the second coming of the Jerry Jones organizational structure.

The question becomes whether the owner is advising / participating, or if he's dictating. It's been pretty obvious the times that McNair has played dictator. (Keenum starting, Ed Reed signing, New coach stuck with Carr) It's not as if Rick Smith came up to Bob and said "Hey, we need to start that Keenum kid". Hell, he didn't even ask/consult his DC about signing Ed Reed at all.

Cal McNair is being groomed nearly identically to Steven Jones. Texans Vice Chairman and Chief Operating Officer vs. Cowboys Chief Operating Officer/Executive Vice President & Director of Player Personnel. Fortunately thus far, Bob hasn't given Cal "official" personnel duties.

I'm under no illusions that Bob is even in the top 3 of meddlesome owners, but when he does, it's obvious and almost universally sets the team back.
 
Rick Smith has made his full share of mistakes. He's also had to deal with what I hope isn't the second coming of the Jerry Jones organizational structure.

The question becomes whether the owner is advising / participating, or if he's dictating. It's been pretty obvious the times that McNair has played dictator. (Keenum starting, Ed Reed signing, New coach stuck with Carr) It's not as if Rick Smith came up to Bob and said "Hey, we need to start that Keenum kid". Hell, he didn't even ask/consult his DC about signing Ed Reed at all.

Cal McNair is being groomed nearly identically to Steven Jones. Texans Vice Chairman and Chief Operating Officer vs. Cowboys Chief Operating Officer/Executive Vice President & Director of Player Personnel. Fortunately thus far, Bob hasn't given Cal "official" personnel duties.

I'm under no illusions that Bob is even in the top 3 of meddlesome owners, but when he does, it's obvious and almost universally sets the team back.

I can agree with this, but at the same time wonder if maybe he makes good decisions we don't here about?

As far as RS goes, I haven't heard of him over ruling coach or going around the owner in any decisions. I'm sure he's had his hand in most all decisions good and bad. But it's not just him. It's the whole organization that should take the blame or receive the credit. RS or OB make the decision alone. McNair gets involved when they disagree or he wants his way against both of them. He does it, as most owners do.

I think McNair will get involved less as our team does better.
 
I can agree with this, but at the same time wonder if maybe he makes good decisions we don't here about?

As far as RS goes, I haven't heard of him over ruling coach or going around the owner in any decisions. I'm sure he's had his hand in most all decisions good and bad. But it's not just him. It's the whole organization that should take the blame or receive the credit. RS or OB make the decision alone. McNair gets involved when they disagree or he wants his way against both of them. He does it, as most owners do.

I think McNair will get involved less as our team does better.
I wondered if he had some "good" behind the scenes stuff as well.

I definitely think RS would never consider trying to overrule Bob.
 
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A decade, no real SB contender = Fail

A decade McNair makes almost a billion $$$$ = win

So I suppose win/lose depends on how you look at Smith's tenure.
 
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Trying to transition from 4-3 OLB is a bigger jump than from 4-3 DE in going to 3-4 OLB generally.

& to compound the matter, defenses are continuing to evolve to match up with the ever evolving offenses.

Personally I used to prefer at least one of the OLBs come from 4-3 OLB, because you needed that guy to cover TEs, RBs, & general zone coerage duties.

But nowadays, with the way we're using an extra DB on more than 50% of the snaps, or an extra safety, I may prefer both OLBs to be tweeners.

Bottom line, the coaches have to do a good job identifying their needs & coaching these players to do what they envision them doing.
 
My only problem with this offseason is the Texans are effectively 5 mil under the cap and have OL issues. That $$$$ could've been spent on OL like Stepenson/Wiesnewski (SP?) instead of adding a guy like Bergstrom. I do think that the OL is passable and hopefully will become more cohesive but let a couple of injuries happen and they will be in trouble.

I think they gambled that DBrown would be back by now. Or at least they still expect him to play for a major part of the season. This offseason, they wanted to take a big step on the interior line, including the depth. & I think they did, or might have. They like XSF. They went & got Martin. They went & got Allen.

They like Aboushi (& from what I've seen, I think he could be a starter in this league.) & they went & got Bergstrom, I'm still undecided about him. We're missing Nick Martin, but Mancz seems to be holding his own (after one week).

But I think that interior may be a big strength for us as is & if Martin is better than Mancz, next year it will get even better.
 
A decade, no real SB contender = Fail

A decade McNair makes almost a billion $$$$ = win

So I suppose win/lose depends on how you look at Smith's tenure.

Can't argue with this, however I keep in mind that there has been 9 different winners out of 14 different teams to play in a SB since 2006. It ain't easy but we have been playoff contenders and once in anything can happen... see NYG twice
 
Wait, I thought he was just Bob's lackey. How can a decade of no real SB contender be his fault as a Yes Man?

True

All of this really is a discussion about McNair, how he runs his team and what's most important to him, winning/making $$$$.

This yr so far McNair has chosen to pocket 5 mil in cap $$$$$ for instance.
 
True

All of this really is a discussion about McNair, how he runs his team and what's most important to him, winning/making $$$$.

This yr so far McNair has chosen to pocket 5 mil in cap $$$$$ for instance.

He don't pocket none of it... it goes to next year.

And no, the discussion was Rick Smith until you turned it into another Bash McNair/McNair is cheap discussion.

You know we are all fans here and I know you are to. I just don't think that it's as easy as you imply to get to much less win one as you imply. Yes McNair makes money and he spends money and the Houston Fans as a whole are willing to let him make that money. If people stopped spending the money he wouldn't make it. Supply and demand. It works on the football field also. 32 teams only 2 make the super bowl each year. It ain't easy getting there. That can't be the sole judge of a good team or organization. I believe they are getting competitive and a threat to win every game they play. What more can you reasonably expect? Not desire, but expect?
 
True

All of this really is a discussion about McNair, how he runs his team and what's most important to him, winning/making $$$$.

This yr so far McNair has chosen to pocket 5 mil in cap $$$$$ for instance.

It is common for teams to keep a reserve of 3-4 mil minimum in order to replace players who go to IR.

Also contrary to your cap aspersions McNair is out of pocket real dollars way in excess of the cap this year, e.g. Oz is getting $21 mil and only counting $12 mil on the cap.
 
What basis other than conjecture do you have for either (both)?

Do you have a shred of anything resembling evidence to say McNair overrode the HC & GM on either occasion?

Guesses are fine, right up until you treat them as fact.

I don't know about the Clowney pick. We could speculate based on "best player in a generation" media hoopla + South Carolina Gamecocks connection, but that is just assumption.

However, I do believe Sean Jones. I've heard his perspective several times and it has never waivered in its consistency. He was being interviewed in 2001 to be a capologist for Casserly. They asked him who he thought should be drafted, and his choice was Julius Peppers. Jones told them not to worry about a QB until they had everyone else in place, but they needed a "face of the franchise" according to McNair himself.

This goes along with everything that I have heard and have perceived about the early Texans organization. As Vinny said, it was a marketing company with a football division. Carr had the chiseled look, good family background, and was a posterboy for the new franchise. Heck, Carr has alluded to it on NFL Network, who now employs him as an analyst. He made a cryptic statement awhile back that appearance was more important than substance regarding why he was the first overall pick. In hindsight, he believes he was fed to the wolves and would have benefitted greatly by sitting a year and learning how to be a pro.

I have no reason to doubt it. Occam's razor philosophy applies where the simplest explanation is most likely correct, especially when so many parts fit together to support it.

That said, I'm not going to roast McNair for something 15 years ago when he was a noob owner.

Ed Reed was a McNair decision plain and simple

I agree completely and have never deviated from this perception. Between his own press conference, the owner's jet being sent to pick up Reed and deliver him to Houston, and Wade's comments about not being in the decision loop, I have no doubt that McNair was directly involved. And it's still recent enough that he deserves to be roasted.

However, I still think this is a boardroom front office and not a dictator situation where McNair is micromanaging roster decisions (i.e. Jerry Jones). Rick Smith does not carry enough weight to be held accountable, which is most likely why he stayed when Kubiak was fired. This roster was more of a reflection of Kubiak & Co. than it was Rick Smith.
 
However, I still think this is a boardroom front office and not a dictator situation where McNair is micromanaging roster decisions (i.e. Jerry Jones).

This is the point. I don't doubt McNair wanted a face of the franchise. That only becomes significant to a discussion of how involved he is if that desire overrode Capers and/or Casserly. We have nothing to say it wasn't unanimous. Capers' 1st pick in Carolina was Kerry Collins.
 
Honestly I don't understand why Texian doesn't just copy and paste his posts.. it's basically just the same crap over and over and over and over..

Sure as hell would save him a lot of key strokes.

Well not everyone has as good a memory as yours Carr Bomb but I did throw in a few brand new wrinkles just for you:

"The Houston Texans have a failed business model (it certainly has never been proven). Without doing a complete research I don't think there is another similar model currently in the NFL. By this I mean when a head coach is hired with final say on the 53 man roster he usually gets to bring in his personnel ie: Pete Carrol. Rarely if ever is the new head coach forced to accept and work with the front office that was put in place by the fired head coach."
 
Well not everyone has as good a memory as yours Carr Bomb but I did throw in a few brand new wrinkles just for you:

"The Houston Texans have a failed business model (it certainly has never been proven). Without doing a complete research I don't think there is another similar model currently in the NFL. By this I mean when a head coach is hired with final say on the 53 man roster he usually gets to bring in his personnel ie: Pete Carrol. Rarely if ever is the new head coach forced to accept and work with the front office that was put in place by the fired head coach."

Ah, Pete Carrol...

He was officially hired as the Seahawks' head coach on January 11.[42] He was also named executive vice president of football operations, effectively making him the Seahawks' general manager as well. While the Seahawks have a general manager in John Schneider, he serves mainly in an advisory role to Carroll, who has the final say in football matters. In fact, Schneider was actually hired by Carroll—a rare case of the head coach hiring the general manager. He is one of two current NFL coaches who also have the title or powers of general manager, the other being Bill Belichick of the New England Patriots.

Link

Totally disputes your argument that it is rare to NOT happen. 2 of 32 is not a majority
 
Ah, Pete Carrol...



Link

Totally disputes your argument that it is rare to NOT happen. 2 of 32 is not a majority
I think you missed the point there JB. Try it again. Your reading and comprehension is atrocious.
 
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Quit being obtuse. It's a fallacy to think that OB has final say on the 53, that makes your whole nonsense invalid
That's exactly what Tania and McClain reported when OB was hired. Do you read their stuff? follow them on twitter? watch their videos?
 
That's exactly what Tania and McClain reported when OB was hired. Do you read their stuff? follow them on twitter? watch their videos?

Doesn't matter what they reported. OB, Rick Smith and McNair have all said how they operated
 
Doesn't matter what they reported. OB, Rick Smith and McNair have all said how they operated
"Who's really in charge? The firing of Gary Kubiak brought the first big shakeup for [Texans owner Bob] McNair's organization in almost a decade. [Rick] Smith survived the switch as the team's GM, and he still runs the draft and free agency. But just the same, it's clear that [Bill] O'Brien carries a big stick coming aboard from Penn State, as evidenced by his securing contractual final say over the 53-man roster."

http://www.espn.com/blog/houston-texans/post/_/id/5332/obriens-power-over-the-53-man-roster

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...ns-among-five-teams-with-new-power-structures

Either you haven't looked behind the green curtain or you're suffering from a rectal cranium inversion.
 
yes I know, but if Rick Smith disagrees with OB's call, just as in wanting Mallett released immediately after the Miami game, all he can do is try to get Smith to change his mind or go to McNair and hope that McNair backs him. Ergo, he doesn't really have final say does he?

Both O'Brien and Smith report to McNair, who's very well-respected in ownership circles. McNair is in the office when he's in town, but because his other businesses do take him away at times, he has entrusted his son Cal to oversee day-to-day operations. McNair also is there as a tiebreaker for big football decisions, though that hasn't been needed early on in the O'Brien/Smith partnership.

Maybe you don't read everything you quote?
 
yes I know, but if Rick Smith disagrees with OB's call, just as in wanting Mallett released immediately after the Miami game, all he can do is try to get Smith to change his mind or go to McNair and hope that McNair backs him. Ergo, he doesn't really have final say does he?



Maybe you don't read everything you quote?

None this changes the fact that O'Brien still has final say on the 53 man roster as is so stated in his contract regardless of how people want to try and spin it.
 
None this changes the fact that O'Brien still has final say on the 53 man roster as is so stated in his contract regardless of how people want to try and spin it.

ok, go with that even tho you know it isn't true... it fits your agenda
 
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I don't see why this debate has existed so heavily. Since OB arrived, the Texans front office has been pretty hush hush. Smith has never liked his dealings to go public and generally keeps a low profile. Even when Kubiak was here, the Texans front office squabbles were kept in house pretty well for the most part. Some moves have been obvious in the past, but a lot of this stuff is situational and I see the current situation more as a group effort thing. None of us are in their meetings, so we're all just speculating any way.
 
A decade, no real SB contender = Fail

A decade McNair makes almost a billion $$$$ = win

So I suppose win/lose depends on how you look at Smith's tenure.

If you reverse some of that...

Real SB contender = win
McNair loses a billion = fail

We would be rooting for the Tennessee Texans.

It's the NFL - the goal is to make money and win.

No one invest huge amounts of cash out of the goodness of their hearts for the city they love. They are in it for the money.

The entire NFL is a marketing company that plays football games. If it wasn't hugely financially successful it would be the WNBA.
 
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