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Patriots under investigation

IDEXAN said:
If the league really wants to punish the Pats, why don't thy take away some first round picks ? Right, that's not gonna happen.
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They fined them 250,000 and took away a 1st round pick for spy gate....since this is their 2nd offense, i would think the penalty is more severe.
 
TexansSeminole said:
But, you said it yourself. It's a premeditated violation of the rules and it's the second time they've been caught doing it.
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I'm not saying what it should be. I just wouldn't be surprised if it isn't deemed as serious. And even though this really shouldn't be a consideration, the fact the game was a blowout may lessen the penalty as well.

On a side note, Brad Johnson bizarrely has come forward and admitted to paying $7500 to have all the balls for the SB doctored.
 
Sigma said:
So they ruled out the possibility of leaky balls?
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11/12 of the Patriots balls "leaked" while non of the 12 Colts balls did same?

Perhaps the Patriots saved money buying those cheap Chinese made footballs from Alibaba? :thinking:

Mr teX said:
They fined them 250,000 and took away a 1st round pick for spy gate....since this is their 2nd offense, i would think the penalty is more severe.
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Team lost 1st Round draft pick and fined $250,000, Belichick $500,000.


I think Brady is the source that motivated this, not Belichick. QBs like their balls prepped a certain way.
 
Mr teX said:
They fined them 250,000 and took away a 1st round pick for spy gate....since this is their 2nd offense, i would think the penalty is more severe.
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Obviously I totally forgot about that, so thanks. And maybe the league will really
burn the Pats on this deal.
 
What confuses me most about this is how the refs didn't notice. They touch the balls before and after every play, and yet it took a linebacker intercepting the ball to notice they were under inflated?
 
NCTexan said:
What confuses me most about this is how the refs didn't notice. They touch the balls before and after every play, and yet it took a linebacker intercepting the ball to notice they were under inflated?
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A ref may only lightly grasp the ball, while an intercepting player will be holding onto it for dear life.
 
Blake said:
Dude you are really reaching here. 2 of your 3 comparisons (if you want to call them that) are speculation. The Pats have been accused and confirmed of cheating.

So I call an organization morally corrupt and you spew out this garbage about me putting players on pedestals as shining beacons of moral purity? Good grief. Talk about a straw man argument...

I dont like any NFL team cheating. Whats so wrong with that? Why do you feel the need defend the Pats with the "ALL TEAMS DO IT!!" defense?

Hey selling drugs is bad, but others do it too, so its ok!
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Geez, man, it's just silly hyperbole on my part. I readiy admit what I thought was very obvious. Get your panties unbunched about a freakin' game. It's not like someone's life depends on this stuff.

A lot of teams push boundaries was my point. Here is Aaron Rodgers talking about how he pushes it:

Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers likes to overinflate the football. When the Packers and Patriots played on Nov. 30, CBS broadcaster Phil Simms relayed a conversation he had with Rodgers.

“He said something which was unique. ‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do, and see if the officials take the air out of it,’” Simms said of Rodgers. “Because he thinks it’s easy for him to grip. He likes them tight.”

Rodgers defended the practice Tuesday on his radio show on ESPN Milwaukee.

“It’s not an advantage when you have a football that’s inflated more than average air pressure. We’re not kicking these footballs,” he said.
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And I'm not defending the Patriots. I do not have a dog in this hunt. I'm just not so sensitive about this stuff that it makes me whine about it. I've got more important issues in life to deal with than how footballs are inflated.

Enjoy the entertainment, but try to keep it in perspective that it is ultimately meaningless to most of us.
 
I doubt they ever deflated special teams footballs since the refs handle those, but could you imagine the shitstorm if that was ever discovered? They'd be guilty of sabotaging the opposing team and the career of that team's kicker.
 
NCTexan said:
What confuses me most about this is how the refs didn't notice...
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Gerry Austin said it would be unlikely, that they've got too many other things they're focused on during games.


Interesting how incensed Ron Jaworski and Steve Young are about this. Add them to Jerry Rice.


Colin Cowherd thinks as part of their penalty the league should force the Patriots to do Hard Knocks for two years. I like that. :highfive:


Another thing people aren't talking about much is how much easier a softer ball is to grasp/catch. If you've ever played in the cold vs. the heat you know how hard the ball gets.
 
Double Barrel said:
Geez, man, it's just silly hyperbole on my part. I readiy admit what I thought was very obvious. Get your panties unbunched about a freakin' game. It's not like someone's life depends on this stuff.

A lot of teams push boundaries was my point. Here is Aaron Rodgers talking about how he pushes it:

And I'm not defending the Patriots. I do not have a dog in this hunt. I'm just not so sensitive about this stuff that it makes me whine about it. I've got more important issues in life to deal with than how footballs are inflated.

Enjoy the entertainment, but try to keep it in perspective that it is ultimately meaningless to most of us.
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lol - ok so I wear panties now. Good one! You are obviously more interested in attacking me and my view point that actually defending yours.

Your post is so ridiculous that I wont even waste anymore keystrokes discussing it. Good day sir.
 
Blake said:
lol - ok so I wear panties now. Good one! You are obviously more interested in attacking me and my view point that actually defending yours.

Your post is so ridiculous that I wont even waste anymore keystrokes discussing it. Good day sir.
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Damn, man, I honestly did not mean to come across this way. I think you're cool and appreciate your takes, so please (honestly) accept my regrets for some misguided sarcasm on my part. Pissing you off was never my intent.

The root of it is that I just don't take this story all that seriously. I just can't get worked about ball inflation. Spying, I get. It's jacked up, wrong, and taints Belichick's legacy. But this story? I'm tired of hearing about it and it's dominating the airwaves right now. Instead of hearing about football and the big game, I'm hearing a bunch of people get really upset about balls.

So, I'm out. I got nothing substantial to offer this story because I find it ridiculous. I'll refrain from pissing off anyone else with sarcasm that is clearly not working today.
 
mike freeman ‏@mikefreemanNFL
Gerry Austin, longtime referee, says halftime Pats-Colts game footballs were brought in, checked at half. Colts footballs still legal. Patriots were not.
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I've seen/heard four different instances now where people compared 11 lb PSI balls to 13 lb PSI balls -- to a man, every one could readily tell the difference and preferred to softer/smaller balls. Most were ex-players.
 
Playoffs said:
Gerry Austin said it would be unlikely, that they've got too many other things they're focused on during games.


Interesting how incensed Ron Jaworski and Steve Young are about this. Add them to Jerry Rice.


Colin Cowherd thinks as part of their penalty the league should force the Patriots to do Hard Knocks for two years. I like that. :highfive:


Another thing people aren't talking about much is how much easier a softer ball is to grasp/catch. If you've ever played in the cold vs. the heat you know how hard the ball gets.
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You know, it would only take an 80 degree drop for the ball lose 2 psi. Fill them in a 120 degree room, check them fairly soon after, and they would be underinflated on the 40 degree field.
 
Playoffs said:
mike freeman ‏@mikefreemanNFL


I've seen/heard four different instances now where people compared 11 lb PSI balls to 13 lb PSI balls -- to a man, every one could readily tell the difference and preferred to softer/smaller balls. Most were ex-players.
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I don't understand the comment in the quote. If they checked the footballs at halftime and they were illegal, then why did they continue to let the Patriots use them. Oh well, the Colts problems in that game go way deeper than deflated balls. :peek:
 
santo said:
I don't understand the comment in the quote. If they checked the footballs at halftime and they were illegal, then why did they continue to let the Patriots use them. Oh well, the Colts problems in that game go way deeper than deflated balls. :peek:
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The latest word is - I heard this on ESPN radio - was that the refs checked them at halftime and re-inflated them to the proper pressure.

Pats scored 17 pts with "illegal" balls in the first half and 28 pts with properly inflated balls in the second half. I don't see where the under-inflated balls were any advantage according to the scoreboard.

This reminds me of when Al Davis was accused of pumping up balls with helium back in the day and that's how Ray Guy got so much hang time. LOL This whole thing is much ado about nothing.
 
Beer and Metal said:
Fill them in a 120 degree room...
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:spit:
santo said:
I don't understand the comment in the quote. If they checked the footballs at halftime and they were illegal, then why did they continue to let the Patriots use them...
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They brought them back up to spec.

Lorenzo Neal ‏@LorenzoNeal
If there's smoke, there's fire. Everyone wonders how the low air was really exposed. Come on do the math, the snake in the grass, Vinatieri.
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Snitched!
 
ObsiWan said:
The latest word is - I heard this on ESPN radio - was that the refs checked them at halftime and re-inflated them to the proper pressure.

Pats scored 17 pts with "illegal" balls in the first half and 28 pts with properly inflated balls in the second half. I don't see where the under-inflated balls were any advantage according to the scoreboard.

This reminds me of when Al Davis was accused of pumping up balls with helium back in the day and that's how Ray Guy got so much hang time. LOL This whole thing is much ado about nothing.
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Ok, this would make sense. Still, most of the damage done was Blount on the Colts defense. They didn't have an answer for him at all in that game. Will be interesting to see how the fair against the Seahawks.
 
ObsiWan said:
The latest word is - I heard this on ESPN radio - was that the refs checked them at halftime and re-inflated them to the proper pressure.

Pats scored 17 pts with "illegal" balls in the first half and 28 pts with properly inflated balls in the second half. I don't see where the under-inflated balls were any advantage according to the scoreboard.

This reminds me of when Al Davis was accused of pumping up balls with helium back in the day and that's how Ray Guy got so much hang time. LOL This whole thing is much ado about nothing.
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Teams play different with a lead vs playing from behind.
 
Doyel: Deflating ball beneath most; but this is the Pats
Gregg Doyel, gregg.doyel@indystar.com 1 p.m. EST January 21, 2015

Here's the thing about DeflateGate, this silly idea that the New England Patriots used under-inflated footballs in the AFC Championship Game against the Colts:

It's not silly.

It's the Patriots.

If nothing else comes of this – and the prediction here: nothing else comes of this – we'll always have that. Lots of people will forever believe the Patriots cheated the Colts on Sunday. Why? Because it's the Patriots. And they've cheated before. This is the NFL franchise that was busted for spying on opposing teams. It is run by the same man, Bill Belichick. Either you are, or you are not, willing to cheat.

And Belichick is. The NFL found him guilty of – even responsible for – the Spygate scandal during the 2007 season. With very few exceptions, people can be divided into various either/or categories: Employed or unemployed. Smoker or nonsmoker.

Cheater or not a cheater.

Belichick's a cheat...
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Okay, this is getting funny. The writer of the above just tweeted this...

Gregg Doyel @GreggDoyelStar
Hours after my story on cheating Patriots, someone knifed my car.

Story http://www.indystar.com/story/sport...l-beneath-most-but-this-is-the-pats/22053049/ …

B749I0DIcAAFH1T.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B749I0DIcAAFH1T.jpg
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ObsiWan said:
The latest word is - I heard this on ESPN radio - was that the refs checked them at halftime and re-inflated them to the proper pressure.

Pats scored 17 pts with "illegal" balls in the first half and 28 pts with properly inflated balls in the second half. I don't see where the under-inflated balls were any advantage according to the scoreboard.

This reminds me of when Al Davis was accused of pumping up balls with helium back in the day and that's how Ray Guy got so much hang time. LOL This whole thing is much ado about nothing.
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In regards to the actual game this happened in..not such a big deal. The Colts were throttled 3 times over in multiple ways. The big deal is this is the 2nd time this particular team has been caught bending/breaking the rules and at least for me, it just casts a little bit more of a shadow over their success over the last decade.....it just makes you wonder how much other underhanded crap they've pulled over the years that never came to light.

During spygate, I remember that the NFL was supposed to be going through belichick's offices to confiscate any video from the sidelines they had on opposing teams. Did we ever find out how many tapes if any there were?
 
Mr teX said:
During spygate, I remember that the NFL was supposed to be going through belichick's offices to confiscate any video from the sidelines they had on opposing teams. Did we ever find out how many tapes if any there were?
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They were destroyed.

Persistent rumor is Belichick had gathered a portfolio of evidence of "cheating" by other teams that he was planning on taking public if the league took it punishment too far. Rumor. Drugs? Filming? Spies? Femme fatales? Who knows.


Agree this has zero to do with Colts playoff outcome and everything to do with the integrity of the game. I still think it's the QB, not HC.

If I were the Pats I'd get my ballboy from Southy to cop to trying to help his team "because he overheard Brady say he liked underinflated balls", take the fine, and pay him off handsomely under the table after this all dies down.
 
Nobody actually believes that the deflated balls helped the Patriots win so people can stop bringing that up. They were so obviously the better team that the footballs don't even matter.

The issue is that for this particular circumstance to even happen means that the Patriots would have had to knowingly commit an act that is against league rules.

The outcome of the game has no bearing on whether or not what they did was against NFL rules.
 
Since the pats have cheated before they should get the hammer some suggestions lol

-fine
- loss of draft picks
- for the superbowl, force them to use the old 1940 pigskin
- for the superbowl, spot them 10 points to the Seahawks at kickoff
 
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story...e-new-england-patriots-arrogance-consequences

This article is from a Boston based writer. Thought it was interesting what she thought punishment should be....

If the NFL finds the Patriots culpable (and that is still a big "if" at this point), it should lay the hammer down. If Belichick turns out to be a repeat offender in the skirting of the league rules, he should be suspended for the Super Bowl.

It's not about the deflated balls. It's not about how much of an advantage (if any) it provided the Patriots or Tom Brady.

It's about the integrity of the sport and the arrogance of a football coach who, if guilty, has once again shown that he thinks he is bigger than the game.
 
Double Barrel said:
yeah, I don't get it. The Patriots have been a consistent dynasty for the past 14 seasons when it was said that dynasties could never exist again due to rule changes and free agency.

I get the hatred of them. Consistent success always brings that contrary view in some folks. But, I do not understand the inability to be objective in analysis of pro football. The hatred becomes blinders that only allow some folks to see what they want to see.

Love them, hate them, whatever, but if you're honest you'll respect them.
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The question is whether THEY are honest. Get with the program.
 
Has anybody called it Ballghazi yet, in this thread? If not, I would like to be the first.
 
Patriots response strategies...

1. Aaron Hernandez did it,
2. I'm shocked, shocked that there's gambling in here!
3. Deny, deny, deny... snitches get stitches.
4. Belichick throws it to Brady, who throws it to McDaniels, who throws it down to support staff... then Brady breaks down, crying, points to 13 year old ball boy --> He did it!


Sounds like we're going with option #4.
 
Double Barrel said:
Because the NFL is our society's bastion of honesty and integrity? :rolleyes:
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To be fair, it is their #1 listed value on NFL Careers
MISSION AND VALUES
To present the National Football League and its teams at a level that attracts the broadest audience and makes NFL football the best sports entertainment in the world.
To achieve our mission, we will constantly challenge ourselves to improve and be guided by these values:

INTEGRITY
We safeguard the integrity of the game.
We are ethical in all of our dealings with fans, clubs, business partners, and each other.
We follow through on our words with action. We are honest and direct.
We create an environment that inspires trust and confidence.

PERFORMANCE AND TEAMWORK
We expect from everyone in our organization the highest level of performance and commitment to our mission and values.
We set the highest standards and challenge ourselves to keep improving.
We are accountable for our results and consistently measure our progress.
We make smart and informed business decisions.
We work together, sharing knowledge, information and other resources to attain the best results.
We focus on organizational objectives, not individual agendas.

TRADITION AND INNOVATION
We recognize that the NFL's traditions are an asset, but we also embrace change.
We do not rest on our accomplishments.
We seek new ways of performing in response to fan interests, technology, and the best practices and business models of other organizations.
We balance the need to change with the utmost respect for what has been accomplished.
We are thoughtful and deliberate in our thinking, and always consider the long-term consequences of our decisions.

DIVERSITY
We create an organization that represents, supports and celebrates diversity, while also embracing our shared interests.
We represent and respect a wide range of human differences, personal experiences and cultural backgrounds for the benefit of the organization and our employees as individuals.
We provide each employee with an opportunity to achieve his or her full potential.

LEARNING
We take individual responsibility for learning, personal growth, and career development.
We actively support, as an organization, opportunities for individual development, but we recognize that personal talent and initiative will primarily drive individual growth.
We encourage employees to seek learning opportunities both inside and outside the workplace.
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Chris Mortensen @MortReport
After Belichick’s remarkable opening statement, clearly he has shifted the focus to Tom Brady
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Bart Hubbuch @BartHubbuch
I have covered Belichick since 1994. No chance he is ignorant of the football-prep process. Zero. None.
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Armando Salguero @ArmandoSalguero
Not saying Belichick guilty. But for someone who pays close attention to practice ball quality, his ignorance on game balls raises eyebrows.
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Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock
Bill Belichick knows every consonant & vowel of the rule book, formations, etc. It's what makes him such a great coach. He knows the process
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Ed Werder EdWerderESPN
Belichick says he was "completely and totally unaware." Goodell has previously told coaches, "Ignorance is not an excuse." Stay tuned

Bill Belichick enjoys his reputation for being among most meticulous head coaches ever, but doesn't know about pressure in footballs?

What was that Tom Brady said a few weeks ago about the #Ravens knowing the rule book?
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Andrew Brandt @AndrewBrandt
Instant reaction to Belichick statement: there were lawyers...#deflated
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Albert Breer @AlbertBreer
The one thing that was hard to swallow about that is how every player who's ever played for Belichick marvels at how detail-oriented he is.
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disaacks3 said:
Hey, I never said they're living up to their standard, but it is the standard they set for themselves. :peek:
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Oh, I agree, man. It's a strange dichotomy between the image that the league projects and the historical realities for decades.

Very corporate approach to protecting a brand, not much different than Nike, Coca Cola, etc. They say one thing but do another.
 
“Of course it’s a big deal,” said a defensive coordinator. “You go try to throw a ball in wet conditions that is fully inflated, and then throw one that has less air. Of course you’re going to get a better grip. It’s a definite advantage. And look which team it is. Not a surprise.”

An AFC defensive coach told me: “It pisses us off. We’re talking about the integrity of the game, respect for the game. That should mean something to you. You don’t have to look for every gray area to exploit. It’s like the ineligible player thing. [The Ravens complained that the Patriots were working too fast when players were reporting as ineligible and not allowing the defense time to change personnel, as is required.] That violates the spirit of the rule.

“[Belichick] is a great coach, and they are a great team. It’s just a shame that they feel the need to do these things. If you don’t respect the game, I lose respect for you.”
...
Three coaches told me they had never really heard any discussion about the pressure in a game ball. Getting one worked in and scuffed up? Sure, every quarterback has a personal preference as to the feel of the football. When the balls come out of the box, they’re slippery because of wax on the ball. But the amount of air? Never part of the interaction with their quarterbacks.

Why?

“Because the NFL has strict guidelines, and the officials make sure they are regulation before the game,” said an offensive coordinator. “The balls are always the same inflation for games.”
...
In a segment for ESPN, former NFL quarterback Mark Brunell and running back Jerome Bettis were given a ball inflated to regulation and another that was two pounds under regulation, as the Patriots’ balls were reported to have been. Both players were adamant an advantage would be gained...
...
The one thing NFL coaches were unanimous on: They’re interested to see how this is handled by commissioner Roger Goodell, because the perception is the Patriots get off easy on infractions that would result in harsher penalties for other teams.
...
“Too often competitive violations have gone unpunished because conclusive proof of the violation was lacking,” Goodell wrote. “I believe we should reconsider the standard of proof to be applied in such cases, and make it easier for a competitive violation to be established.”

Now the NFL world waits for the league’s investigation to conclude, and to see if Goodell puts his money where his mouth is.
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http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/22/deflategate-reaction-of-nfl-coaches-bill-belichick-press-conference/
 
Everyone is pretty much ripping Belichick and the pats right now..I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing wasn't a ploy by Belicheat to galvanize his team. Us against the world speeches for 2 whole weeks leading up to the superbowl.
 
Mr teX said:
Everyone is pretty much ripping Belichick and the pats right now..I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing wasn't a ploy by Belicheat to galvanize his team. Us against the world speeches for 2 whole weeks leading up to the superbowl.
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Wait, so prior to the AFCG, Billadamus decided to break league rules then leak the info after blowing out the Colts, thus getting everyone to bad mouth him and his team, in order to have a motivational tool for the following two weeks.

He's a genius!!! :rolleyes:
 
I could tell you that in my entire coaching career I have never talked to any player, staff member about football air pressure. That is not a subject that I have ever brought up.
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ne.gif
So with regard to footballs, I’m sure that any current or past player of mine would tell you that the balls we practice with are as bad as they can be: wet, sticky, cold, slippery. However bad we can make them, I make them. Any time that players complain about the quality of the footballs, I make them worse and that stops the complaining.
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Again, my overall knowledge
icon_liar.gif
of football specifications, the overall process that happens
liar.gif
on game day with the footballs is very
liar.gif
limited.
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Peyton's Head ‏@PeytonsHead
Tom Brady is now listed as "Questionable" for the Super Bowl after being thrown under the bus by Bill Belichick.
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Bonnie Bernstein ‏@BonnieBernstein
Belichick: "Tom Brady can talk better about how he prefers his footballs." Oh, boy. That's gonna leave a mark. #DeflateGate
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Benjamin Hochman ‏@hochman
Somewhere Tom Brady is like: "Dude. Really?"
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trey wingo ‏@wingoz
Message being delivered by Bill? Talk to the Quarterback...
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xopc7t.png
 
JB said:
Wait, so prior to the AFCG, Billadamus decided to break league rules then leak the info after blowing out the Colts, thus getting everyone to bad mouth him and his team, in order to have a motivational tool for the following two weeks.

He's a genius!!! :rolleyes:
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I didn't say it wasn't a stretch, but based on his history with spygate, breaking/bending league rules isn't a problem for Billy boy...and there didn't have to be any premeditation involved...just simply him using this bad situation to his advantage.

he also didn't have to leak anything...all that needed to happen was for someone of note to notice the difference...D'qwell Jackson brought the issue to the refs attention after he intercepted Brady.... the rest of it took care of itself.

#3..you're a fool if you don't believe that Belichick won't use this a tool to keep his guys hunkered down and focused...
 
Mr teX said:
I didn't say it wasn't a stretch, but based on his history with spygate, breaking/bending league rules isn't a problem for Billy boy...and there didn't have to be any premeditation involved...just simply him using this bad situation to his advantage.

he also didn't have to leak anything...all that needed to happen was for someone of note to notice the difference...D'qwell Jackson brought the issue to the refs attention after he intercepted Brady.... the rest of it took care of itself.

#3..you're a fool if you don't believe that Belichick won't use this a tool to keep his guys hunkered down and focused...
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yeah I know, I was just making fun of the

whole thing wasn't a ploy by Belicheat
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that alluded it to be an intention motivational ploy. I'm sure he's using it now tho
 
Dread-Head said:
nice...but don't make light of the "War on Tara". We'll GET that 3:tch Scarlet O'hara!
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What did Goodell know and when did he know it?

Why didn't he scramble a ref force lead by Mike Peirra after the first interception???

I want the NFL emails about this released!

Impeach Roger Goodell!
 
I wonder if anyone has asked O'Brien about this? And if so, I wonder what his response would be? "No comment?"
 
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