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Post game discussion - Jags @Texans
- Thread starter Texansphan
- Start date
I posted this elsewhere, but again.. no one was moving whatsoever except Dell, and he was moving horizontally until after the ball was snapped.
It was clear b.s.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
IIRC someone said that it was due to Dell moving forward to the LOS before the ball was snapped but my lord it would've been a millisecond move, and the flag was way late.....
Number19
Hall of Fame
Are you basing your opinion on something other than the broadcast TV or the clips you attached? That shows Dell already in motion on the left hash marks right in front of Stroud. You need the video of the 2 or 3 or 4 seconds prior to this to see if the H-back or Collins had or had not been set before Dell started in motion.
All players must come to line and be set in the formation before Dell starts in motion. This is basic. This was a.tough play for Dell to learn the hard way.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
Looks to me like they lost a yard.
Not only that but unless I'm seeing something not there since when do they set up eight yards back? It’s normally seven. This game was just an odd CF all around....
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Number19
Hall of Fame
You need an all 22 to see what happened.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
It rivals that really shitty Colts game in December maybe 10 years ago. I think Jerome Boger did that one. It was soooooo bad.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Yup. Just because we're rebuilding doesn't mean we can't be annoyed, furious, critical, analytical, etc. This team is like 10 points away from being 9-2! 9-2 bruh!
I say it's open season and we should make sure to capitalize.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
I don't think Dell was at the LOS by the time the ball was snapped. Even if he was, it couldn't have affected the game play. That's something a ref should account for when deciding whether to take away a 60 yard completion. And if a ref does make that decision, he has some explaining to do.
Number19
Hall of Fame
A player in motion cannot be moving toward the los when the ball is snapped. This is not the case. Dell did not turn toward the los until the ball was in Stroud's hands. This is easily seen on the TV feed. If this is indeed the explanation, then I agree this was a BS call.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
I'm with you I didn't like the call, but that clip doesn't show the entire play (from when Dell starts in motion) Dell began his motion before Collins was set... I believe that is what they called. e.g. Nico's foot is still going back (not set) when Dell starts to move... it's milliseconds.
Not my best grab, but no more time to mess with it tonight. New all 22 is horrible - makes it more difficult to get screen grabs of the plays.
It did before I realized how athletic he was. He’s elusive.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I am hoping CJ teaches a spin move to Will Anderson.
Texazan
Our HOF 34
Thanks for posting, to my old eyeballs it looks like Dell takes off once Nico sets the back foot but Whatever, it’s over now.
newjagscity
Practice Squad
Well, regardless of who we are playing, I always wish for a game free of injuries, with minimal impact by the officials. While both teams had a couple of players affected by injury, unfortunately my wish regarding referee non-involvement didn't pan out. However....
Was there some blatant uncalled holding? Yes, by both teams. Were there some egregious PI calls/no calls? Yes, on both teams. Overall, tho, even on penalties,
Houston only had 1 more penalty than the Jags.
None of that ultimately decided the game. Stroud took too many bad sacks at the wrong times, Texans play calling was situationally bad, Texans never pressured Lawrence, Jags hit big pass plays and shut down the Texans non-QB running game. Trying an unreasonably long FG at the end when 4th and 12 looked more promising was a mistake. Jags not taking the FG at the end of the 1st half was a mistake. Ridley dropping a TD pass was a mistake. Those were the major reasons for the close win, IMHO.
You guys only have 2 more games you could possibly lose, the Colts and the Broncos. I can see you at 10 - 7 without a lot of effort. Plenty of season left.
Was there some blatant uncalled holding? Yes, by both teams. Were there some egregious PI calls/no calls? Yes, on both teams. Overall, tho, even on penalties,
Houston only had 1 more penalty than the Jags.
None of that ultimately decided the game. Stroud took too many bad sacks at the wrong times, Texans play calling was situationally bad, Texans never pressured Lawrence, Jags hit big pass plays and shut down the Texans non-QB running game. Trying an unreasonably long FG at the end when 4th and 12 looked more promising was a mistake. Jags not taking the FG at the end of the 1st half was a mistake. Ridley dropping a TD pass was a mistake. Those were the major reasons for the close win, IMHO.
You guys only have 2 more games you could possibly lose, the Colts and the Broncos. I can see you at 10 - 7 without a lot of effort. Plenty of season left.
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beerlover
Hall of Fame
One broadcaster commented that CJ Stroud reminded him of Fran Tarkenton moving in the pocket. I was a young fan when he played but yeah, he was elusive and bought time with his legs. Which was what I thought Bryce Young would be not CJ.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
The explanation I heard today was that Nico was not set for a full second before Dell went in motion. Ok fine, then flag it when the ball is snapped and don't wait until the play has been fully executed and the offense has revealed their hand. It didn't affect the play anyway, which is why Tyreek Hill gets away with it every week.
Simply put, you don't take away 60 yards on inconsequential ticky-tack stuff because you couldn't get your flag out sooner.
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
If you're trying to make the case that the bad calls impacted both teams evenly, then you watched a different game.
Four PI's against the Texans were on 3rd down, three of which were nonexistent ghost PI's, and two of those gave the Jags a 1st and goal. Go watch the ghost PI in the end zone to see how bad it was. There's a reason the broadcast wouldn't replay it.
Not to mention the two critical catches by Tank Dell in FG range that were reversed.
I don't expect any opposing fan to answer for bad officiating, but please don't come here blowing smoke about the impact being even. The Jags suffered one bad non-call, so now we have to listen to Jags and media pretend it made up for the Texans getting screwed the entire game.
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I've been wan
I've been wanting Slowik to use that motion for weeks. Honestly, I cannot see any difference between the way Dell went in motion versus what Hill and Deebo are doing in this video.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Well said brother.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
That killed a lot of starting momentum for the Texans.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Disagree.
A playoff team to me is what the Texans were under Kubiak and OB. (Except the year Schaub got the lisfranc injury. That was our one year we could have won the whole thing) All those years we could win the AFC South, maybe a wild card game, but that’s it. That’s a playoff team.
We have a top 5 QB in the league. A coach that players would die for. Money to spend this off season. And draft picks to fill any other holes. A GM that find players in FA and the draft.
We are talking playoffs this season. We have a roster built to make the playoffs this year. That may have not been the expectation this year, but when you exceed your goals you need to adjust them to the new reality. New reality is this year we are contenders for the AFC South, and a possible wild card. That’s how good we are now. We should be better next season with all the stuff I mentioned. We shouldn’t say “oh well we exceed expectations last year so we should lower them next year.” That is what I am getting from y’all and to me that is a loser mentality or someone that’s scared to risk it all.
A rebuilding team to me is just trying to get a winning record. We are past that. Our goal from here on out is to win the AFC South. There was nothing in the last game that showed me the Jaguars are a far superior team.
Are we a contender for the Super Bowl - No. Will we be next year? Probably not but it depends how the off-season goes. I could see Caserio finding some diamonds in the draft and FA. But at a minimum we should be a perennial playoff team here on out. And our goal next year is to be a division banner. See if we can win more than a wild card game. And in 2025 we should have the goal of getting to the Superbowl. At that time be what the Chiefs and Eagles are.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
Probably the next sports personality here on 610.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Thanks for the all 22. It's consistent with what I've been saying, and I also agree that it's a ticky tak call, especially considering how refs are letting OTs get early movement on their pass sets. It's inconconsistant.
Now, for a second.point that has been raised - they should have called the play dead before the play played out. This has never been the case. You see it a lot on penalties when qbs, especially, have a free pass. In this case, had the pass been incomplete, the Jags could have rejected the penalty and taken the play.
As ticky tak as the penalty was, it was still legitimate.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Referees have to let the play play out. I know you've seen penalties called when qbs have a free pass. In our case, had the pass been incomplete, the Jags could have rejected the penalty and taken the play.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I've looked at three disputed plays in detail. They've been discussed here. In each case I may not have liked the way the calls went against the Texans, but the calls were legitimate.
I think what we are looking at are what is being called "ticky tak" calls. Calls which are technically correct, but which are inconsistently called between teams or players, or from game to game; and which often make a difference in the outcome.
These ticky tak calls give the game, and the NFL, an appearance of favoritism, for a myriad of reasons, at best; and corruption at worst. While tolerated in the past, now that the NFL has crawled into bed with the gambling industry, the NFL is heading toward the iceburg.
I think what we are looking at are what is being called "ticky tak" calls. Calls which are technically correct, but which are inconsistently called between teams or players, or from game to game; and which often make a difference in the outcome.
These ticky tak calls give the game, and the NFL, an appearance of favoritism, for a myriad of reasons, at best; and corruption at worst. While tolerated in the past, now that the NFL has crawled into bed with the gambling industry, the NFL is heading toward the iceburg.
I have not rewatched the game yet but just going by memory the announcer said that someone else was in motion at the same time off camera. He claimed the penalty was for having 2 players in motion at the same time.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
The announcer say there “may” have been someone off screen that we can’t see.
There was no evidence that seen at the time and announcers were just assuming.
Just like the one of the pass interference calls. They showed a replay and didn’t see anything and said it may have happened earlier.
Consistency of calls is the NFL only hope. If it is a penalty for one team then it has to be a penalty for the other. In this high tech age people are able to pick the game apart with a fine tooth comb. They will find the inconsistencies. It looks bad when most of the 'ticky-tack' calls go against one team.
I really don't believe in the games being fixed. If I truly did then I would quit watching. Who wants to watch a sport where the outcome is already decided. But the Texans were absolutely robbed in this game.
This was one of the poorest officiated games I have seen. The refs have to be made permanent employees so that there are repercussions when something like this happens.
I normally try to take up for the refs. I have a son that was an Olympic level judo referee before he retired & I know how hard he worked & how much crap he had to put up with. But there is no defense for the total incompetence these refs displayed.
Sorry for the rant. I will get off my soapbox now.
I really don't believe in the games being fixed. If I truly did then I would quit watching. Who wants to watch a sport where the outcome is already decided. But the Texans were absolutely robbed in this game.
This was one of the poorest officiated games I have seen. The refs have to be made permanent employees so that there are repercussions when something like this happens.
I normally try to take up for the refs. I have a son that was an Olympic level judo referee before he retired & I know how hard he worked & how much crap he had to put up with. But there is no defense for the total incompetence these refs displayed.
Sorry for the rant. I will get off my soapbox now.
https://x.com/JeremyBranham/status/1729505424402006507?s=20
Look at this call by the backline ref on Schultz.
He tried to call him out of bounds LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Look at this call by the backline ref on Schultz.
He tried to call him out of bounds LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
The way he moves around the pocket is his biggest weakness for me. The retreat and/or spin method are causing extra yardage losses on the sacks he does take. I am not focused enough to see if he has a place to step up when does those moves, but clearly 15 yard sacks are too much of a thing.
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I get what you're saying and if you remember correctly I said three years ago that it would take the Texans 3 years to become contenders. I expected them to be a fringe playoff team this year and a true contender next yr. They're a yr behind schedule.
The past 2 years Culley was supposed to be the HC during the rebuild yrs but he wouldn't go along with the plan. So you got Lovie. Caserio has spent the last 3 years gathering talent which was hard to do with the coaching changes and changing schemes.
The 2 yrs before this yr the team was being built for Ryans to come in and put the finishing touches on the rebuild. Because of the coaching changes the finishing touches on the rebuild will be added this off-season. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't be a playoff team this year. I could see them making the playoffs and even winning a game depending on who they're matched up against and the health of the team.
Yes it was a tricky tack call. It was probably 4th or 5th on the list of Ricky tack or bad calls that went against the Texans. If you believe that's a coincidence then I've got some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you. Look at the odds of the Jags winning the division vs the odds of the Texans winning the division before the season started if you want an answer for why that game was called the way it was. Vegas/ TV runs the NFL these days. It's why they've changed so many rules to make things more subjective so the refs can control the outcomes of games. This has been going on for years but it's only gotten worse over the last 3-4 years.
Look at last years Chiefs/Bengals playoff game to see what the NFL is really all about. Only a fool would bet their hard earned money on a NFL game.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Two days later, and I'm still pissed about the officiating. Usually, I see a bad call, I cuss it out...and then let it go. It usually works outself out in the wash. But this crew was so awful overall, and so obviously focused on the Texans DB's in particular that it cannot be overlooked. To hell with letting this go - I want a full-scale Congressional investigation. Give me the FBI, CIA, and CyOps! I will not let this go! I will die with this ****. My epitaph and tombstone will say F*** the Refs - 11/26/23
Texansballer74
The Marine
Number19
Hall of Fame
Can you prove what you are claiming? Of course you can not. It's only your opinion. I don't necessarily disagree, but since there's nothing to be done, I don't go there. Not worth the aggravation.
But the NFL has poked the hornets' nest when they climbed in bed with the gambling industry. There's already one law suit been filed for misconduct. If sucessful, more will follow. When the NFL begins to be held liable for a.dirty game, then changes will follow. It's all about the.money.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Do you know the quarter and time? I've had to start over from the start of the game to many times to figure out which play is being commented on.
Porky
Hall of Fame
I don't buy the rigged thing. What I do buy is that some officials have a big ego, and think they are more important than the players on the field. They look for a reason to throw the laundry at key moments. We've got replay for scoring plays as it is - why the hell can we not have official reviews from "the mothership" when they see an obvious bad call that directly impacts the game in crucial moments - scoring plays, etc.
Hell what do I know. They can't even decide what a catch is anymore. If you can't see two feet down and possession with that Tank Dell sideline catch...maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. Perhaps recruiting replay officials from the Helen Keller College of Laser Surgeons was a bad idea after all.
Hell what do I know. They can't even decide what a catch is anymore. If you can't see two feet down and possession with that Tank Dell sideline catch...maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree. Perhaps recruiting replay officials from the Helen Keller College of Laser Surgeons was a bad idea after all.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Doug Peterson called Dell out of bounds. You disagree. So how should the refs decide? The play was inconclusive from the video feeds - until the still pboto surfaced hours later.
Texansballer74
The Marine
I believe the third quarter.
Meanwhile every ticky tack call and even close sideline catches that weren't overruled went against the Texans. Too Too was blocked to the ground with the ball in the air.
Y'all still think this game wasn't rigged. Ryans can send a library of calls like this to God'ell and it wont matter. Why? because the NFL has partnered with Vegas and Vegas losses big money if the Texans win the division.
It's rigged games like this that makes me want Lawrence to go down for 4-5 weeks and Vegas loses their azz despite the NFL, Vegas attempt to cheat.
Texansballer74
The Marine
They did last night I believe. One of the receivers caught a pass for the Vikings. He got hit immediately but it didn’t look like he was down. He ended up gaining a total 17 yards. They moved ball to that spot. As the offense was lining up, the officials blew the whistle. They must’ve received a call. The Bears didn’t throw in the red flag. After going through the review, the receivers knee touched the turf. So they marched them back whipping away the first down and making it third and 6.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Yeah the game was clearly rigged IMO, even though we had a shot to upset Vegas and it’s crooked league. They didn’t want the Texans to win period. They didn’t expect us to be this good and this good this fast.
It was only inconclusive because they wanted that call to stand.
You do know that the NFL officials over the replay at the home office have the ability to still shot things before they make a final decision.
OK while I don't necassarily agree with all of your points, I do appreciate your comments about the longer term and thank you four your input in this discussion.