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Time for Martyball or CowherPower. We need a tough blue collar attitude

Give me a break Ckw, we are lucky not to be 0 for our last 6 games. Yeah, there is defeintely a lot of improvement going on here. In the NFL, you measure improvement with your W-L record not how hard you try or how much of a good person you are. Our team is so soft they deserve to be fed orange slices and juice boxes at the end of games and be taken to Cici's to celebrate even after getting embarrassed
 
Vinny said:
Kubiak has coached this team for 24 games now. We are no better than when we started despite having "more talent". I'm serious when I say that I haven't seen coaching this bad since we saw the overmatched Hugh Campbell look dazed and confused on the Oiler sideline.
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haha. Pardee had some moments of just awkward befuddledment too. Ed Biles too. glad your on board with the whole 'horrible coaching' argument. I am worried that McNair is going to Care Bear this whole scenario like he did with Carr. Kubiak will be back and then the following year no good head coaches will be available like there are presently.

Cowher or Marty would be huge for us. Marty would have a HUGE axe to grind and has lines of people wanting to work for him. Cowher brings the whole Cowher mystique, the ability to coach players up and put them in positions to succeed, and of course the possiblity of him bringing Faneca and LeBeau with him.....omg that would insane if we could pull that off.....and the fact is THERE IS NOTHING STOPPING McNAIR FROM DOING SO.

sorry bout the caps but I am a bit peeved today.....
 
TexansFight said:
Give me a break Ckw, we are lucky not to be 0 for our last 6 games. Yeah, there is defeintely a lot of improvement going on here. In the NFL, you measure improvement with your W-L record not how hard you try or how much of a good person you are. Our team is so soft they deserve to be fed orange slices and juice boxes at the end of games and be taken to Cici's to celebrate even after getting embarrassed
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that is some great stuff.....oh and its true
 
Ckw5814 said:
No, I'm hanging with Kubiak because I believe he is a good coach and has already made strides with a terrible team. We have a serious lack of talent and have a long way to go. I really should not have even put the last statement in. It was more of just a rant. Yes, it is quite irritating to hear Kubiak continue saying "The loss is on me." I'm as sick of it as anybody. But what else is he supposed to say? "Man, the team sucked! These guys can't play worth crap." Or "These guys couldn't execute if their lives depended on it." I feel he's taking the high road.
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Does Kubiak have nothing to do with the players that are chosen to play on this team??? To think that is rediculous. He has had ALOT of money to work with and two drafts and has come up with obviously not enough.

It's so great to watch Kubiak take the high road and say the games are on him...why hold player's accountable? He clearly means "My players suck" when he says "this is my fault", huh?
 
Ckw5814 said:
And by more talent do you mean more depth? Because if that's what you're saying I have to disagree. When our starters are on the field and doing their jobs, yes we have more talent. Throw in the injuries and get our second stringers on the field and I see the same ole Texans.
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Great so all of our starters just have to not get injured. We must avoid any and all injuries. You don't need quality backups in football, nobody ever gets injured. Why would a coach try and get quality backups??? What ***** would do that? I hope Faggins doesn't get injured...the guy is just such a valuable player. God forbid our rookie cornerback comes in and doesn't get beat on every passing play.
 
TexansFight said:
This situation is even worse than the Hugh Campbell era Oilers (uhh thanks for bringing back those wonderful memories Vinny). Back then, we at least had MIKE HOLOVAK picking players (yes I remember Ladd was the GM but Mike was the personnel guy, if Mike is still alive and has brain activity he would be the best personnel guy the Texans could have despite being 100 years old). He used our top picks to stock a team loaded with talent and got guys in the later rounds to help as well. We didn't whiff on guys but got studs like Bruce Matthews and Mike Munchak to anchor our line for more than a decade.

We have bad coaching and bad personnel decisions. All the Oilers needed was a good coach in Glanville to turn things around. Our situation is not nearly as good.
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ok...ok...i was right alongside with you until the Glanville comment....i may have vomited in my mouth a tad..

that being said, Glanville did have his team ready to play most Sundays and they showed a lot of courage and fight. Something that can't be said for our current coaching staff. Oh and he was willing to take some risks too and wasn't afraid to ruffle a few feathers or call a player out for subpar performances. Remember his whole 'NFL stands for Not For Long' quote from NFL Films footage....
 
Cowher here would be perfect. Houston is a blue collar town and we can relate to a guy like Cowher. What he brings is what our fans desperately crave. McNair to me embodies the worst of the lame corporate ethos that has infested this city and represented by scumbags like Lay, Skilling, Fastow, and the rest of the Enron criminals.

Bud was a jerk, but he at least was colorful, hired colorful people, was not an ***** and realized the benefits of picking a legend from Texas. His litmus test in selecting a coach that would keep Carr was mind boggling.
 
TexansFight said:
Bud was a jerk, but he at least was colorful, hired colorful people, was not an ***** and realized the benefits of picking a legend from Texas. His litmus test in selecting a coach that would keep Carr was mind boggling.
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I draw the line at reflecting on Bud in a positive light.
 
Let's get Jimmy Johnson here too.

Oh wait, he wanted nothing to do with coaching here.

Let's talk about the litany of coaches who aren't likely to come to Houston.
 
TEXANRED said:
I draw the line at reflecting on Bud in a positive light.
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Bud was and always will be a marketing disaster but he has always hired good football people and let them build his team as he got the heck out of the way. One of the biggest reasons the team had to give up two picks for Schaub was McNair getting in the way and not having the ability to see that Carr was garbage and insisted on extending him the MAX contract extension. That totally altered the draft and the future of the team...not to mention that McNair hired a coach based on what was best for Carr, and not the team.
 
TexansFight said:
Bud was a jerk, but he at least was colorful, hired colorful people, was not an ***** and realized the benefits of picking a legend from Texas. His litmus test in selecting a coach that would keep Carr was mind boggling.
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If McNair hasn't realized by now that his football insight is worth absolutely nothing and that he should make zero football decisions I just can't see us going anywhere by plan. We would have to get a good coach by accident.
 
Vinny said:
Bud was and always will be a marketing disaster but he has always hired good football people and let them build his team as he got the heck out of the way. One of the biggest reasons the team had to give up two picks for Schaub was McNair getting in the way and not having the ability to see that Carr was garbage and insisted on extending him the MAX contract extension. That totally altered the draft and the future of the team...not to mention that McNair hired a coach based on what was best for Carr, and not the team.
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HALLELUJAH!!
 
Second Honeymoon: I will agree that Glanville went too far with some of his shenanigans. However, he doesn't get the credit he deserves for turning around a loser program like we have right now and getting them to become a hard hitting, winning football team.

When your team is a loser, you have to first rebuild pride and his whole army helmet given to the most ferocious special team player built the fire you needed to turn a loser to a winner. I remember that he had physical football teams that would NEVER stand for their QB getting nearly decapitated without retribution. You bet your ass Cris Dishman, William Fuller, Ray Childress et al. would have dished out some payback. There was a reason why the Dome was called the House of Pain back then. BTW, that era when all the AFC Central teams hated each other was my fondest time as an NFL fan

This team has no personality or spark. I am tired of plastic emotionless coaches leading this team. You can get by being no-personality if you are Bill Belichick who is one of the greatest defensive minds of all time. We need a guy here in the mold of Mike Leach, Cowher, Mark Richt (loved that he wanted his team to have an all team TD celebration to turn their losing streak to UF around).
 
TexansFight said:
When your team is a loser, you have to first rebuild pride and his whole army helmet given to the most ferocious special team player built the fire you needed to turn a loser to a winner.
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actually, I think that was the idea of the special teams coach....Richard Smith's idea...you know him, he's our DC.
 
Vinny said:
Bud was and always will be a marketing disaster but he has always hired good football people and let them build his team as he got the heck out of the way. One of the biggest reasons the team had to give up two picks for Schaub was McNair getting in the way and not having the ability to see that Carr was garbage and insisted on extending him the MAX contract extension. That totally altered the draft and the future of the team...not to mention that McNair hired a coach based on what was best for Carr, and not the team.
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This is all true.:shots:
 
Texans_Chick said:
Let's get Jimmy Johnson here too.

Oh wait, he wanted nothing to do with coaching here.

Let's talk about the litany of coaches who aren't likely to come to Houston.
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so you don't think Cowher would come here? why not? we would have to pay him a lot of $$ but there are a lot of positives to coming here. i don't think this job scares anyone off. Jimmy just likes to fish and make a cool million showing up in a studio 20 days out of 365....I hope you have a higher opinion of Houston professional football than to think that a coaching candidate wouldn't want to come here.

For crying out loud, Cowher remembers the good ole days of Oiler football. He knows it can work here and he knows we have the facilities, fanbase, $$, and some important core pieces of personnel already in place. We got a QB, a bonafide #1 WR, some potential at DL and LB. He would make it work. He always did regardless of who left the Steelers roster on a perennial basis.

Coaching is in Cowher's blood. He is the PERFECT candidate to turn this thing around. Kubiak was not. He was just the sentimental favorite and went to A&M and had local ties. BFD. Russ Grimm or Al Saunders would have been a better fit as developing head coaches....but for some reason everyone thought Kubiak was ready....obviously he was not.

Cowher knows that whatever job he gets he is going to have job security and ultimate authority. He could look at this as a challenge. If he goes to the Eagles, then hire Andy Reid. Both would bring far superior staffs with them.....if we move fast in the offseason.

Lord, please let A&M lure Kubiak away from the Texans. It would just make everything so much easier for everyone.
 
i'm going to new orleans next week to find a good voodoo shaman. if anyone else wants to throw down some cash, we can have a zombie lombardi here in houston in about two weeks.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Lord, please let A&M lure Kubiak away from the Texans. It would just make everything so much easier for everyone.
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just don't let them see any Texans games. Showing Titan or Cowboy games in College Station may not be such a bad marketing move after all.
 
TexansFight said:
Second Honeymoon: I will agree that Glanville went too far with some of his shenanigans. However, he doesn't get the credit he deserves for turning around a loser program like we have right now and getting them to become a hard hitting, winning football team.

When your team is a loser, you have to first rebuild pride and his whole army helmet given to the most ferocious special team player built the fire you needed to turn a loser to a winner. I remember that he had physical football teams that would NEVER stand for their QB getting nearly decapitated without retribution. You bet your ass Cris Dishman, William Fuller, Ray Childress et al. would have dished out some payback. There was a reason why the Dome was called the House of Pain back then. BTW, that era when all the AFC Central teams hated each other was my fondest time as an NFL fan

This team has no personality or spark. I am tired of plastic emotionless coaches leading this team. You can get by being no-personality if you are Bill Belichick who is one of the greatest defensive minds of all time. We need a guy here in the mold of Mike Leach, Cowher, Mark Richt (loved that he wanted his team to have an all team TD celebration to turn their losing streak to UF around).
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The guys want to play for guys like that....that may come back to bite him in the SEC but it worked on Saturday.....as for fiery yet stoic coaching, watch Fisher coach. Intensity, focus, and he is in the game. Kubiak looks puzzled half the times and always a step behind the opposition. I wish Bud would have been stupid enough not to lock him up.
 
While I am not fond of the idea of kicking Kubiak to the curb after just two seasons, the idea of having either Cowher or Schottenheimer tickles my fancy. One interesting idea could be this, bring in Marty as the head coach and Cowher as the defensive coordinator. Cowher used to work under Marty as special teams coach for the Browns from 1985-1988 and as the defensive coordinator for the Chiefs from 1989-1992.

Yeah it's just a dream, but I would be down for that combination.
 
What sucks is that if the Texans got more national media coverage there would be alot more heat on Kubiak. Nobody knows what's going on with the Texans, Kubiak will never be on the national media hotseat.
 
inschaubwetrust said:
While I am not fond of the idea of kicking Kubiak to the curb after just two seasons, the idea of having either Cowher or Schottenheimer tickles my fancy. One interesting idea could be this, bring in Marty as the head coach and Cowher as the defensive coordinator. Cowher used to work under Marty as special teams coach for the Browns from 1985-1988 and as the defensive coordinator for the Chiefs from 1989-1992.

Yeah it's just a dream, but I would be down for that combination.
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that may be past dream status and more like a utopia....

something tells me that Cowher isn't going to take a Defensive Coordinator position :)

FWIW - giving Kubiak 2 years is not 'kicking him to the curb'. it's either fire kubiak now or re-sign him. that is where we are at. if we don't resign him then he is a lame duck coach in the final year of his deal in 2008. if we resign him we only seal our losing fate further. a 3 year deal is essentially a 2 year window in the NFL for a coach to show improvement....personally, I havent seen enough improvement to warrant him being resigned and a lame duck coach will equal another horrible season of Texans football.
 
I sure don't want the Texans to become one of "those" teams that churns through coaches every few years. I was hoping we would become something of what Cowher, Landry, Fisher have done and been allowed to stay and establish some kind of franchise personality.

However, if we're all going to throw names out there...how about that crazy looking dude in Oakland. Buddy Ryans son right? That guy looks like someone I would love to have watching my back walking into a rough bar.
 
Silver Oak said:
I sure don't want the Texans to become one of "those" teams that churns through coaches every few years. I was hoping we would become something of what Cowher, Landry, Fisher have done and been allowed to stay and establish some kind of franchise personality.

However, if we're all going to throw names out there...how about that crazy looking dude in Oakland. Buddy Ryans son right? That guy looks like someone I would love to have watching my back walking into a rough bar.
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Rob Ryan would be a GREAT candidate as DC but I just can't see him as Head Coach anywhere outside of Oakland. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't want my head coach looking like he works in the offseason as a roadie for Iron Maiden.
 
TexansSeminole said:
Great so all of our starters just have to not get injured. We must avoid any and all injuries. You don't need quality backups in football, nobody ever gets injured. Why would a coach try and get quality backups??? What ***** would do that? I hope Faggins doesn't get injured...the guy is just such a valuable player. God forbid our rookie cornerback comes in and doesn't get beat on every passing play.
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You need quality starters first. We don't even have quality starters at CB (other than Drob), safety, OLB, and the entire offensive line. Yes, depth is the goal, but it takes a while to get there.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Rob Ryan would be a GREAT candidate as DC but I just can't see him as Head Coach anywhere outside of Oakland. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't want my head coach looking like he works in the offseason as a roadie for Iron Maiden.
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if Pee Wee Herman could get us to the playoffs, I wouldn't care if he spent the offseason in a lot of adult theaters...just give us wins baby!
 
Silver Oak said:
I sure don't want the Texans to become one of "those" teams that churns through coaches every few years. I was hoping we would become something of what Cowher, Landry, Fisher have done and been allowed to stay and establish some kind of franchise personality.
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The Oilers were one of those teams, he constantly fired coach's till he got the right fit. I think he even went through five coachs in seven years at one point.

But it worked, Glanville filled in as HC midway through a season, the next we were in the playoffs, fired Glanville, Hired Pardee, still in the playoffs, fired Pardee, got Fisher, went to the superbowl.

We could hang on to projects and end up like the Bengals.
 
TEXANRED said:
The Oilers were one of those teams, he constantly fired coach's till he got the right fit. I think he even went through five coachs in seven years at one point.

But it worked, Glanville filled in as HC midway through a season, the next we were in the playoffs, fired Glanville, Hired Pardee, still in the playoffs, fired Pardee, got Fisher..........................
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Fixed it for ya. :)
 
Silver Oak said:
I sure don't want the Texans to become one of "those" teams that churns through coaches every few years. I was hoping we would become something of what Cowher, Landry, Fisher have done and been allowed to stay and establish some kind of franchise personality.

However, if we're all going to throw names out there...how about that crazy looking dude in Oakland. Buddy Ryans son right? That guy looks like someone I would love to have watching my back walking into a rough bar.
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24 games in, and I don't know what the personality or identity is on this team, do you? It's like mashed potatoes is the closest I can come up with.

Bland, whipped, and soft. :devilpig:
 
Porky said:
24 games in, and I don't know what the personality or identity is on this team, do you? It's like mashed potatoes is the closest I can come up with.

Bland, whipped, and soft. :devilpig:
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Well this is why I will say my number one gripe with Kubiak is he needs to get some stones and tell the old farts Sherman and Smith to take a hike. It's his team, not Sherman's. Sometimes I wonder if because of Kubiak's young age (in coaching terms) if he gets bullied around by these guys and feels like he can't step up to them.
 
Ckw5814 said:
You need quality starters first. We don't even have quality starters at CB (other than Drob), safety, OLB, and the entire offensive line. Yes, depth is the goal, but it takes a while to get there.
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I could understand this if our problems were much more limited in the amount and we didn't have as much money to use. We have problems ALL over the field. The only thing opposing offenses are having trouble with is finding out WHICH weakness they want to exploit.
 
Maddict5 said:
btw just a comment on the great coaches we have to obviously get... what's their offensive philosophy again? yeah they'd fit right in here

http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43764
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This isn't about the offense. Cowher would bring someone in to handle the offense and get the job done. This is about changing the mentality and the direction of this franchise and VASTLY improving the quality of our assistant head coaching staff. This is about instilling some fire, emotion, and most importantly, ACCOUNTABILITY for sub-par play. This is about not letting your team lose a game by the end of the 1st Quarter. This is about bringing in someone with TRUE credibility and championship respect and giving them a challenge in turning a fledgling franchise into a program that we could all be proud of.

It's not often when the timing aligns to make such a huge move and we should learn from our past mistakes and make the BLOCKBUSTER move.

It would take some money but you could effectively buy the services of Cowher, LeBeau, AND Faneca this offseason. Why not? Only Faneca would count against the salary cap and it would improve our team greatly on both sides of the ball. It can be done. You are going to be bidding against other teams but in today's league there should be no limit to what you are willing to spend in regards to coaching.

Look at Snyder in Washington. He spent all willy-nilly on players for years and never did crud, he then realized that he could spend the big money on coaching and it wouldn't hurt the team. He went out and lured one of the all time great coaches and the staff that comes with him.

Look at Jerrah up in Big D. He needed a facelift for his franchise to go along with his facelift for his face...so what does he do? he goes out and signs Parcells to rebuild and next thing you know they have a legitimate NFC contender a few years later. Granted, Parcells leaves but he left behind some quality infrastructure of coaches and developed players behind.

There is admittedly a lot to be said about stability but if you look at it, does anyone really think that Kubiak has what it takes to reach the Super Bowl? I don't. That is what this is all about after all. Shoot for the moon and you are more likely to reach the highest of highs.
 
Ckw5814 said:
Well this is why I will say my number one gripe with Kubiak is he needs to get some stones and tell the old farts Sherman and Smith to take a hike. It's his team, not Sherman's. Sometimes I wonder if because of Kubiak's young age (in coaching terms) if he gets bullied around by these guys and feels like he can't step up to them.
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Not that I agree with your assessment but how can you lead strong willed football players if you can't even lead your assistant coaches?
 
Basically, if Cowher says he wants 'Joe Gibbs' money, you draft up the contract that same day and get the deal done. Make it Joe Gibbs salary with huge incentives on top of it regarding playoffs, playoff wins, championships, etc. just get it done.

If there is one thing you don't go cheap on, that is coaching...

its down to either re-signing Kubiak to an extension or making him a lame duck coach in 2008...both bad choices...OR they could push him out the door justifiably by hiring Cowher and Co. to coach and manage the football franchise.

i think it would be perfect for Cowher as he has a bit of an ego. He would be THE MAN here in Houston so he would love that. In Philly, you are just another coach and a Steeler coach at that. Where else is he going to go that has that much of a better future in it than the Texans. The Texans have the youngest roster in the NFL. There is talent on the team. We just need an identity and Cowher would bring that in spades. You bring in Cowher and his assistants in and the Texans are the talk of the league.
 
I am not in for getting a new coach yet, but like TC said.. our defense needs a boost in coaching.

offense is soft, yeah, we run a finesse offense like denver's.. I am not sure what y'all expected out of the offense.. if it was smashmouth.. well you should have known that was not coming with Kubiak's hiring..

I don't like to make excuses, but what can you say.. this team still is trying to build depth.. is a coincidence that when AJ went down, this offense isn't the same? Spencer down,McKinney down..Ahman Green hasn't helped much..

defensively.. simply overmatched and it is a shame with all the "talent" that we have drafted and we are still struggling.. (well we knew secondary was weak outside of D-rob)

Every team has injuries and they just "plug and play" but this team has drafted poorly and it is showing big time along with our coaching on defense
 
Most of Cowher's players didn't like him. Kubiak might be too far in the other direction.
 
If Kubiak were to get fired, I would hope for Marty Schottenheimer to be the next Head Coach, because he has a long history of turning around losing franchises. I don't care about his supposed inability to win in the playoffs. If your team can't even get to the playoffs, then how can you even complain about his playoff record?
 
Second Honeymoon said:
so you don't think Cowher would come here? why not? we would have to pay him a lot of $$ but there are a lot of positives to coming here. i don't think this job scares anyone off. Jimmy just likes to fish and make a cool million showing up in a studio 20 days out of 365....I hope you have a higher opinion of Houston professional football than to think that a coaching candidate wouldn't want to come here.
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No, I do not think that Cowher would want to come to Houston. Even if the Texans wrote him a huge ole check and then doubled it.

IIRC, his family built a big house in NC. He is not from here. I could see him going to the Panthers if he were interested in unretiring.

Some coaches have picks of whatever jobs they want. I don't see him wanting this job. Most hot head coaches have Phil Jackson syndrome--they go to the place that they think is prestigious and has the base talent to give them an opportunity to win. Nothing like a sorry situation to torpedo your career (see Mike Sherman not getting a $$$ NFL head coaching job offer again--he should have asked for less money in AZ). The Texans have never been over .500, most of the country doesn't know squat about them other than punchlines, and much of the personnel is transitional from 3-4 to 4-3 or are system guys or make-dos.
 
Vinny said:
Not that I agree with your assessment but how can you lead strong willed football players if you can't even lead your assistant coaches?
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In Kubiak's case, I think he could have done a very good thing by bringing in intelligent and experienced minds to help him out his first couple of years on the job. Guys he can look up to and ask for guidance. I mean Sherman his first season was called Assistant Head Coach IIRC. But I do think it can become problematic when he no longer wants or needs that advice, yet feels pressured to listen to it due to the amount of respect he has for the older, wiser individual. I think anyone can struggle with this, yet still be fully capable of leading his team. I'm not saying he's not leading the assistants, but perhaps he just isn't pushing off enough to fully be on his own and make this HIS team not he and Sherman's team.
 
Vinny said:
I donno about that. This Texans team isn't even competitive. They have not looked like a NFL team the last 3 weeks giving up 108 points between the Jags, Chargers and Titans. This team has been outcoached and plays soft. Not a good combination.
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Kubes has one more season left. If he can't turn it around next season, I am thinking we will be on our 3rd coach. Of course if the ship rights itself by the end of this season and next year we are 13-3, then he will get an extension. But I am not holding my breath on that one.

Offensively the team is paper thin in terms of depth and injuries have made the team worst than last season. But even in those first 3 games, Schaub did show a habit of throwing the ball up for grabs 2 or 3 times a game. Remember Kubiak saying they needed to correct that? So him throwing picks now is not exactly surprising. Defensively there is no excuse for this crap. Remember going into the season, everyone was harping on the way this same defense closed out the season last year? Remember how everyone was expecting that to continue? What happened!?!?!?
 
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