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Time for Martyball or CowherPower. We need a tough blue collar attitude

dskillz said:
Kubes has one more season left. If he can't turn it around next season, I am thinking we will be on our 3rd coach. Of course if the ship rights itself by the end of this season and next year we are 13-3, then he will get an extension. But I am not holding my breath on that one.

Offensively the team is paper thin in terms of depth and injuries have made the team worst than last season. But even in those first 3 games, Schaub did show a habit of throwing the ball up for grabs 2 or 3 times a game. Remember Kubiak saying they needed to correct that? So him throwing picks now is not exactly surprising. Defensively there is no excuse for this crap. Remember going into the season, everyone was harping on the way this same defense closed out the season last year? Remember how everyone was expecting that to continue? What happened!?!?!?
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Schaub was also completing 69% of his passes with one of the highest YPA's in the NFL. QB's throw picks...ask Favre, ask Moon...it happens with the guys who challenge teams deep. The flip side is guys like David Carr who don't make any courageous passes but don't make plays down the field either.
 
Vinny said:
Schaub was also completing 69% of his passes with one of the highest YPA's in the NFL. QB's throw picks...ask Favre, ask Moon...it happens with the guys who challenge teams deep. The flip side is guys like David Carr who don't make any courageous passes but don't make plays down the field either.
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The flip side to that is throwing TD's.

I don't think Schaub has thrown a TD since week 3.
 
TEXANRED said:
The flip side to that is throwing TD's.

I don't think Schaub has thrown a TD since week 3.
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I've talked several times about how he's moved the ball in between the 20's but also how it's hard to score in the red zone without your skill guys. When the field shrinks the defense no longer has to defend vertically and can play you more straight up and if you don't have any elite skill guys on the field it's tough to score. It's one reason the Titans kicked 8 FG's against us (they were missing their WR1, RB, and QB).
 
Vinny said:
I've talked several times about how he's moved the ball in between the 20's but also how it's hard to score in the red zone without your skill guys. When the field shrinks the defense no longer has to defend vertically and can play you more straight up and if you don't have any elite skill guys on the field it's tough to score. It's one reason the Titans kicked 8 FG's against us (they were missing their WR1, RB, and QB).
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Makes you kinda wonder if its not the system that we are running. Denver has had a hard time punching into the Redzone lately as well. Schaub running the same system can't cross the line either. Last year Carr went 10 games without getting it into the EZ. Some would make a case for Sage but thats after the game has already been lost by half time.

This is a team with Putz and OD and for some reason we continue to try and run the ball when inside the 20.
 
Texans_Chick said:
No, I do not think that Cowher would want to come to Houston. Even if the Texans wrote him a huge ole check and then doubled it.

IIRC, his family built a big house in NC. He is not from here. I could see him going to the Panthers if he were interested in unretiring.

Some coaches have picks of whatever jobs they want. I don't see him wanting this job. Most hot head coaches have Phil Jackson syndrome--they go to the place that they think is prestigious and has the base talent to give them an opportunity to win. Nothing like a sorry situation to torpedo your career (see Mike Sherman not getting a $$$ NFL head coaching job offer again--he should have asked for less money in AZ). The Texans have never been over .500, most of the country doesn't know squat about them other than punchlines, and much of the personnel is transitional from 3-4 to 4-3 or are system guys or make-dos.
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I guess I have a higher opinion of the Texans than you do.

as for as make-do coaches...that is what Kubiak is and that is what his staff is

until we start ponying up money for some real quality coaching we will never shake the tag as a losing franchise and you will probably be able to maintain your low opinion of the franchise.

I could see him wanting to go to Carolina because of proximity to his family but what is wrong with Houston? It's not like he couldn't afford to buy another house down here and move his family down here. Plus I know his daughters are athletes and Texas has some of the best female athletics programs in the USA.

I would glady take Marty if Cowher was unwilling. I just want some decent assistant coaches and a decent scheme. Kubiak is a freaking joke.
 
TEXANRED said:
Makes you kinda wonder if its not the system that we are running. Denver has had a hard time punching into the Redzone lately as well. Schaub running the same system can't cross the line either. Last year Carr went 10 games without getting it into the EZ. Some would make a case for Sage but thats after the game has already been lost by half time.

This is a team with Putz and OD and for some reason we continue to try and run the ball when inside the 20.
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Carr has never gotten anyone into the end zone on any regular basis. Most of Sage's stuff has been in garbage time. Historically, if you look at many zone blocking teams (Broncos and the Gibbs O-line coached Falcons and the current Packers for that matter) they aren't real good in short yardage or red zone rushing since it is a finesse technique in a part of the field that requires smash mouth football (field shrinks). Football is a game of countermeasures though. You have to both run and pass because teams can take away any one-dimensional strength you may have unless of course you have a true superstar like Earl Campbell or John Elway that can impose their will on you. We have AJ but he's out.
 
Vinny said:
Carr has never gotten anyone into the end zone on any regular basis. Most of Sage's stuff has been in garbage time. Historically, if you look at many zone blocking teams (Broncos and the Gibbs O-line coached Falcons and the current Packers for that matter) they aren't real good in short yardage or red zone rushing since it is a finesse technique in a part of the field that requires smash mouth football (field shrinks). Football is a game of countermeasures though. You have to both run and pass because teams can take away any one-dimensional strength you may have unless of course you have a true superstar like Earl Campbell or John Elway that can impose their will on you. We have AJ but he's out.
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I don't have the answer for our scoring woe's. Scary part is I don't think Kubiak does either. I don't want to sit here and say that Schaub sucks but in eight weeks he has thrown 5 TD's and 7 INT. Now granted for the last three weeks we have been down 30 plus points by half time and that certainly plays a factor. As far as having a super star it is my opinion that OD could very well be the next Gates but this offense does not seem design scoring plays for him when we are in that area.

Kubiak is having the same problems with his offensive style as the Run-N-Shoot had, sure you can get down there, but can you score.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
I guess I have a higher opinion of the Texans than you do.
as for as make-do coaches...that is what Kubiak is and that is what his staff is

until we start ponying up money for some real quality coaching we will never shake the tag as a losing franchise and you will probably be able to maintain your low opinion of the franchise.

I could see him wanting to go to Carolina because of proximity to his family but what is wrong with Houston? It's not like he couldn't afford to buy another house down here and move his family down here. Plus I know his daughters are athletes and Texas has some of the best female athletics programs in the USA.

I would glady take Marty if Cowher was unwilling. I just want some decent assistant coaches and a decent scheme. Kubiak is a freaking joke.
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My opinion and your opinion of Houston and the Texans does not matter. It's what the coach thinks.

The problem isn't being able to spend money on coaches. Marty and Cowher will get paid by someone, so then it is a question of which situation do THEY want to be in. And generally, coaches who are commodities want to get into great situations. Houston has it's good points, but as far as the league is concerned, they are either invisible or punch lines.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
I guess I have a higher opinion of the Texans than you do.
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Why?

Judging by your post history, I've always thought you've been steadily pissed at the Texans. Capers, Casserly, Carr, Mario, and now Kubiak have always seemed to have you ranting and raving at what a joke this franchise is.

TC, on the other hand, invests a lot of thought into writing informative articles about the team. I get more from her efforts than I do from our own newspaper's sports writers.

Never in a million years would I take your above statement at face value after reading you for so long. And I mean that with all due respect and not trying to single you out. But you've always struck me as a 'glass half empty' kinda' guy.
 
Yeah, Second Honeymoon's opinion does not matter and he is not as much of a fan as TC because he is upset with the 6 years of suck we have had to endure. Bitching and complaining about sucky football shows that he cares. You don't have to buy the Kool-Aid that McNair and Kubiak are trying to pass off to be a passionate Texans fan. That this team still has fans after mind numbingly bad and boring football is a testament to the character of the fans of Houston.
 
TexansFight said:
Yeah, Second Honeymoon's opinion does not matter and he is not as much of a fan as TC because he is upset with the 6 years of suck we have had to endure. Bitching and complaining about sucky football shows that he cares. You don't have to buy the Kool-Aid that McNair and Kubiak are trying to pass off to be a passionate Texans fan. That this team still has fans after mind numbingly bad and boring football is a testament to the character of the fans of Houston.
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I don't call out people's devotion to the team. But some are obviously more positive, negative, realistic, or cynical about things.

You can take your character judgements and put them somewhere I shall not mention. It's a rather weak take on your part.

Care to talk football or is it easier for you to just snipe at fans? :howdy:
 
dskillz said:
Kubes has one more season left. If he can't turn it around next season, I am thinking we will be on our 3rd coach. Of course if the ship rights itself by the end of this season and next year we are 13-3, then he will get an extension. But I am not holding my breath on that one.

Offensively the team is paper thin in terms of depth and injuries have made the team worst than last season. But even in those first 3 games, Schaub did show a habit of throwing the ball up for grabs 2 or 3 times a game. Remember Kubiak saying they needed to correct that? So him throwing picks now is not exactly surprising. Defensively there is no excuse for this crap. Remember going into the season, everyone was harping on the way this same defense closed out the season last year? Remember how everyone was expecting that to continue? What happened!?!?!?
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Think if Andre was in there. If Schaub threw the ball up for grabs 2-3 times a game, those would be 2-3 catches a game.
 
corrosion said:
Thats where you are wrong ..... Its our opinion that pays the bills .
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As it relates to the topic of hot head coaches wanting to come to Houston, our opinion doesn't matter. Head coaches who are hot commodities tend to have Phil Jackson syndrome, they want to go to the biggest stages, the most storied franchises, and where there are already most of the parts and pieces in place.

Please put my quote in context, thankyouverymuch.
 
Double Barrel said:
Why?

Judging by your post history, I've always thought you've been steadily pissed at the Texans. Capers, Casserly, Carr, Mario, and now Kubiak have always seemed to have you ranting and raving at what a joke this franchise is.

TC, on the other hand, invests a lot of thought into writing informative articles about the team. I get more from her efforts than I do from our own newspaper's sports writers.

Never in a million years would I take your above statement at face value after reading you for so long. And I mean that with all due respect and not trying to single you out. But you've always struck me as a 'glass half empty' kinda' guy.
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Well I may not be happy with the Texans moves but I think its a good place for an established HC to go. If Cowher truly wants to solidy a HOF career, lets see him turn around a losing franchise and create one. I don't think Cowher is looking for a situation where he can make the SB instantly. He wants to get paid, he wants to feed his ego, and he wants pretty much full autonomy in personnel decisions after being the victim of so much penny pinching during his time with the Steelers.

I love my Texans and think that Houston is a perfect place for the NFL to succeed. And I wasn't calling TC out as I think she is knowledgeable and more honest than most but I don't think the word 'Houston Texans' scares anyone away. Put the right number on the paycheck and he will come. Trust me.

As for not having a high opinion of my team, I was more pointing towards our system, our youngest roster in the league, our quality resources $$ and facilities....and our good fans. Cowher was here when Houston played in the Dome and he remembers that we have fans and a tradition. To be the coach to finally bring a football championship to Houston would be a nice feather on the cap...especially with a young franchise. This town would be Bill's town. What other situtations could he go to, DB?

Possible Cowher Destinations
----------------------------

Philly - If Reid is let go, then Cowher is a candidate but there would be little patience from the fans and ownership and its Philadelphia. Worst Fans Ever. Plus, their organization is also known for being cheap and letting quality players go all the time...something Cowher was never happy about but he dealt with it...in spades. Is it that attractive a destination?

NY Giants - Coughlin seems to have saved his job. Looked to be the early favorite to get Bill but things are presently on the right path in Jersey.

Cincy or Cleveland - I will lump them together because its a similar situation. Each coach may get another year to try and turn things around because of past and current success, respectively. Cowher would probably like to play in the AFC North though and play the steelers twice so both teams are gonna be on any Cowher destination short list.

Baltimore - Will probably make a run at him after the season. I think we can outbid Baltimore and their roster is pretty old. Once again, he could choose them because he would be in AFC North.

Minnesota - I don't think he would choose Minny over Texas. Houston is a much more desirable place to live than Minny as well.

St. Louis - cmon. I am from St.Louis and I know Cowher would come here before he ever thought of coaching there with that ownership.

Carolina - The one place that scares me. He is local and his daughter's athletic careers are important to him. It would be tough to entice Bill to come to Houston over Carolina. Hopefully Fox gets another year and the Panthers win the division.

Houston - GET IT DONE.

Sunshine. Nice Stadium. Biggest $$. No State Taxes. Good Housing Market.
Youngest Roster. Unharvested talent on the roster. Decent Cap Room as most of the dead money is going away...finally.

COWHER, LeBEAU, FANECA......Call me a dreamer......
 
Double Barrel said:
I understand your pov. But being positive does not make anyone lesser of a fan.
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Maybe positive isn't the best word--how about constructive?

Attacking every ill, real and imaginary, isn't constructive. This BS about Kubiak being unemotional is a perfect example. Fine they are losing--doesn't mean Schaub=Carr or Kubiak=Capers in quality or persona. Kubiak has yelled at players and refs on the sideline repeatedly. Acting as if he is an automaton is made up BS which since it isn't accurate doesn't even arise to glass half empty--it is just straight BS.

Even if he weren't "emotional" on the sideline, somebody remind me of the last time Dungy or Belicheck laid down on the sideline, sucked their thumb and threw a hissy fit as SH endorses and frankly posts. Basic problem with SH's position is you demonstrably do not have to act like a baby or an ogre to be a successful coach.
 
infantrycak said:
Maybe positive isn't the best word--how about constructive?

Attacking every ill, real and imaginary, isn't constructive. This BS about Kubiak being unemotional is a perfect example. Fine they are losing--doesn't mean Schaub=Carr or Kubiak=Capers in quality or persona. Kubiak has yelled at players and refs on the sideline repeatedly. Acting as if he is an automaton is made up BS which since it isn't accurate doesn't even arise to glass half empty--it is just straight BS.

Even if he weren't "emotional" on the sideline, somebody remind me of the last time Dungy or Belicheck laid down on the sideline, sucked their thumb and threw a hissy fit as SH endorses and frankly posts. Basic problem with SH's position is you demonstrably do not have to act like a baby or an ogre to be a successful coach.
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wow - well, I guess I missed the part where I said I wanted Kubiak to act like a baby or an ogre. I could care less how Kubiak acts personally, does he get the team fired up and ready to play? are they being properly motivated? the players come out flat game after game. the team has gotten progressively worse as the season has gone alone. How is that about Kubiak being a baby or an ogre? I am talking Cowher because its obvious our coaching staff is 3rd Rate. Cowher would fix that.

Where is the brotherhood? the players arent stepping up for one another. when Schaub was cheapshot like he was, the players should have taken it upon themselves to send a message....where is the brotherhood. we let SD punk us and we didn't do a dang thing. Same thing against the Titans, Haynesworth does a belly flop on our QB and we lack the sack to go after Collins. We are soft just like the coach. Is not being soft being a baby or an ogre? we are soft. the coach is responsible for letting this mentality continue.

Get rid of the guy and bring in someone who is qualified and has capable people willing to work for him. Is that so wrong? Cowher and Schotty would improve our team more than an extra #1 overall pick. Lord knows we don't know what to do with them when we get 'em. Things would turn around and you can take that to the bank.

Just wondering, Icak. Should the Texans let Kubiak play out his final year of his contract as a lame duck, re-sign him to an extension, or find someone else to do the job? I am with the latter but I don't think everyone that feels differently are morons or negative or too positive. I just feel they may have a little too much wishful thinking. I just don't see it.
 
Some of you guys are living in fantasy land. The chances of Cowher coaching for anyone anytime soon is remote. One of the main reasons he retired was to spend time with his family, get to stay at home and attend his daughters sports events etc. Doing weekend commentary on the morning pregame shows is just a gravy job.

Him getting paid is not an issue that is effecting his life. Fans always put his name on wish lists but the guy has been really clear about what he is doing.

What would you do? You have reached the pinnacle of coaching in your sport by winning the Superbowl after years of hard work. You can now happily retire with a sweet commentary job on the weekends that has no effect on the rest of your week with your family or you could go back to an 80 hour a week grind coaching an under talented team that is YEARS away from achieving playoff success much less an actual Superbowl appearance.

Add on all the zeros you want in your magical checkbook but it's just not happening. If money was the reason the guy wasn't coaching that would have been solved a long time ago.
 
infantrycak said:
Maybe positive isn't the best word--how about constructive?

Attacking every ill, real and imaginary, isn't constructive. This BS about Kubiak being unemotional is a perfect example. Fine they are losing--doesn't mean Schaub=Carr or Kubiak=Capers in quality or persona. Kubiak has yelled at players and refs on the sideline repeatedly. Acting as if he is an automaton is made up BS which since it isn't accurate doesn't even arise to glass half empty--it is just straight BS.

Even if he weren't "emotional" on the sideline, somebody remind me of the last time Dungy or Belicheck laid down on the sideline, sucked their thumb and threw a hissy fit as SH endorses and frankly posts. Basic problem with SH's position is you demonstrably do not have to act like a baby or an ogre to be a successful coach.
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I know I'm not educating you but you don't have to be loud to have a deep brooding fire or intensity/will. Dungy and Belicheck are pretty quiet but you can see a firey underbelly to them and you can tell they just have the total respect of their team. I'm not sure we see that in Kubiak's quiet nature although you can point to him being mad here and there and make a case for his intensity, but I'm still not sure I see the total confidence and command of his team that I see in either of the coaches you threw out there as examples. I still think Kubiak should have some time....but it's fair game to talk about imo.
 
I'm all for keeping Kubes, I wanted him originally in 2002 but that didn't work out. I wanted him to be the coach last year, we finally have him as a coach. That being said after Sunday's hangover when I was very upset I might have thought about a new coach but I have calmed down. Kubes will at least be here through the end of 2008. I don't want a franchise that fires coaches on a almost yearly basis like the previous franchise owner did.

I'm ok with him until 2008 but he needs to take a deep look at his assistants, starting on the defense side of the ball.

:texflag:
 
Can see if we go .500 first. The team isn't going to the playoffs. If Sage steps up all is not lost. I hope they fire Faggins shortly and let some of the other guys play. We need the running game back too.
 
Why would an established coach want to come here more than somewhere else? The organization (McNair and his coaches & GM's) has stunk it up from day one (well actually, day two, remembering the cowgirl game)
 
Second Honeymoon said:
Just wondering, Icak. Should the Texans let Kubiak play out his final year of his contract as a lame duck, re-sign him to an extension, or find someone else to do the job? I am with the latter but I don't think everyone that feels differently are morons or negative or too positive. I just feel they may have a little too much wishful thinking. I just don't see it.
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Well I guess we will cross that bridge a couple more years from now. Kubiak signed a 5 year deal, not a 3 year deal. Count on him being here at least 4 of those years unless they hit 2-14 again next year so all the carping about getting a new coach is useless. Fine criticize specific calls, but you can wish in one hand and...about him leaving soon.

Vinny said:
I know I'm not educating you but you don't have to be loud to have a deep brooding fire or intensity/will. Dungy and Belicheck are pretty quiet but you can see a firey underbelly to them and you can tell they just have the total respect of their team. I'm not sure we see that in Kubiak's quiet nature although you can point to him being mad here and there and make a case for his intensity, but I'm still not sure I see the total confidence and command of his team that I see in either of the coaches you threw out there as examples. I still think Kubiak should have some time....but it's fair game to talk about imo.
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Fair enough, but from what I saw last year and this in training camp, in vignettes on the sidelines and the way the team came into this season, they buy into him. Now some of the other coaches...but ultimately that falls on Kubiak's shoulders. Passion helps towards success but doesn't guarantee it. I've watched a far more passionate team on the sidelines and on the field this year than any year before even if success in W's hasn't followed. That's why this criticism seems out of left field to me.
 
color me corrected on the 3 year deal thing. who the hell signs an unproven head coach to a 5 year deal. mcnair needs a freaking lobotomy.

but yeah, unless we lose the rest of our games it looks like Flatlining Gary will be our Head Coach. Well at least we have another season of uninspired and losing football to look forward to.......thanks Bob.
 
Second Honeymoon said:
color me corrected on the 3 year deal thing. who the hell signs an unproven head coach to a 5 year deal. mcnair needs a freaking lobotomy.

but yeah, unless we lose the rest of our games it looks like Flatlining Gary will be our Head Coach. Well at least we have another season of uninspired and losing football to look forward to.......thanks Bob.
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What coach would only sign a three year deal to fix what Casserly and Capers screwed up, that would be completely moronic.

Arizona - Named Ken Whisenhunt coach and signed him to a four-year contract with a club option.

Flacons - Petrino has accepted a five-year, $24 million offer from the Atlanta Falcons to become their new coach. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2723700

Dolphins - Cam Cameron agreed to a four-year contract. Terms of the deal were not disclosed. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/dolphins/2007-01-19-cameron-hiring_x.htm

Pittsburgh - Pittsburgh to offer him a four-year contract worth about $2.5 million annually. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16723895/

The five year deal is not out of line. Yet again you are talking without saying anything. I think you are the one who needs the lobotomy.
 
infantrycak said:
Passion helps towards success but doesn't guarantee it. I've watched a far more passionate team on the sidelines and on the field this year than any year before even if success in W's hasn't followed. That's why this criticism seems out of left field to me.
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I am on board with this and it's a fine point.
 
But will fans settle for "better team" if the Ws are not there? For me it is yes. I just hate to see silly mistakes like clock management or players not blocking/tackling.
 
badboy said:
But will fans settle for "better team" if the Ws are not there? For me it is yes. I just hate to see silly mistakes like clock management or players not blocking/tackling.
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The team we have seen the last 3 weeks has been awful when the game was on the line. What we got there is no W's and sloppy, awful football.
 
Specnatz said:
What coach would only sign a three year deal to fix what Casserly and Capers screwed up, that would be completely moronic.

Arizona - Named Ken Whisenhunt coach and signed him to a four-year contract with a club option.

Flacons - Petrino has accepted a five-year, $24 million offer from the Atlanta Falcons to become their new coach. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2723700

Dolphins - Cam Cameron agreed to a four-year contract. Terms of the deal were not disclosed. http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/dolphins/2007-01-19-cameron-hiring_x.htm

Pittsburgh - Pittsburgh to offer him a four-year contract worth about $2.5 million annually. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16723895/

The five year deal is not out of line. Yet again you are talking without saying anything. I think you are the one who needs the lobotomy.
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5 year deal is out of line with the contracts you listed. Only Petrino got a 5 year deal and we see how well that is working out.

Kubiak is 2nd rate and his staff is even worse. But whatever, keep honking and supporting a loser head coach....wouldn't surprise me....why not just give him a 10 year extension and erect a statue of the guy.

kubiak has been a failure
kubiak's staff is horrible
the team has gotten worse progressively
the team comes out flat
the team makes stupid mistake after stupid mistake
the players aren't gettin coached up and improving if anything they are regressing
the guy just looks completely overwhelmed on the sideline, press conferences, and the fact that he would use 'exceptional' and 'Mario' in the same sentence is the exact opposite of what we need from a coach on a young team.

but whatever, God forbid we try and improve our coaching. what a horrible fan I am.....
 
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