Sage Rosenfels...3 starts...3 wins.

[GP]

This is where you just get obnoxious. No one is calling Schaub a crowned hero. People like his demeanor and play. People like Sages demeanor and play. The difference between you and I is that I can see the forest through the trees and like both guys but don't think there is anything wrong with Schaub if you go back and look at his play game by game. Your goal is to discredit and be right....probably like you did with Carr. Sorry but if we are going on track records here then you are the Steven A. Smith of this place and are just screaming about guys to nobody. Sorry if I don't just trust your opinion after your admissions above.

So where is your analysis? Where are YOUR points?

Here's mine:

1. Schaub is fragile. Case closed. I'm not saying he is a bad guy, I am saying that his hit-to-bench ratio is STEEP.

2. He is eerily slow getting away from center, which is causing him to get pancaked by defenders who are getting to him easier than they are getting to Sage. I saw Sage get pressure tonight, and he just kinda' casually pounced forward and flung the ball for a completion to AJ, which would have had different results from Schaub because Schaub would not have even have been all the way back into his stance yet.

3. I saw Sage escape the tackle box and throw it away when we were near the goal line tonight. Schaub is trying to force it, and he's getting hammered...and usually losing the ball while he's at it, or taking us out of realistic TD scoring opportunity. Schaub's ability to know that there's defenders gaining on him, as he escapes the tackle box, is not looking good (IMO).

4. A new revelation I had tonight comes off something Hervoyel mentioned, which I responded to with this: Schaub is not a distance runner. He looks good for short bursts, and then he seems to trickle down to a crawl. His pace slows, his footwork (IMO) gets slower and choppier, making it easier for defenders to get to him. Let's look at this: 1. Chiefs game he looked AWESOME, I admit it. Panthers game he looked a little gassed, IMO, and yet he managed to bring us back from a deficit for the win. The next few games were losses (correct?) and then we win the Miami game...but how did he look? To me, he looked "off." And I think Kris Brown had lots of field goals off of stalled drives, having to win that game for us. Schaub gets knocked out of the Chargers game, once again not looking out for himself or not paying attention to the fact that there are angry men trying to level him for whatever reason, and he comes back to the game looking like the QB he appeared to be during the first game of the season vs. the Chiefs. Then, he exits the Titans game early. Same story, different opponent.

Please tell me, based on the 11 games that Matt Schaub has started vs. the 3 games that Sage has started, HOW and WHY Matt Schaub is a better QB than Sage.

Right now, I just see a lot of people calling me "obnoxious" and yet there's no in-depth ideas coming my way from you guys.

 

[GP]

How can anyone take you seriously when you completely leave out the part of of Sage coming in and basically making the Titans game almost a Titan rout with his turnovers BEFORE bringing us back. You can't have one without the other and you are selectively picking games and times without acknowledging others. I mean you just called a 16 of 27 with 200 yards and 1 TD pass and 1 int "picking apart defenses, making Champ Bailey look like a clown?" How can anyone take you seriously?Go look at Schaubs stats and that is a game line, if not better for many games. You are a wakking hyperbole and I'm starting to see why talking to "Carr fan" was such an adventure.

Our defense is not matching up well with this year's Titans offense, which is completely beyond logic and reasoning. Even I don't understand why we cannot stop the Titans. They are getting hosed by all their other opponents...I mean, even the Bengals made them look silly for crying out loud.

Sage did turn the ball over a lot, but let's also not look past the idea that Sage was JUST THEN coming out as the full time guy. I personally believe that it takes a little time (not too long, though) for the oline and the WRs/RBs/TEs to get in "sync" with another QB who just jumps in there suddenly.

This is why, as the full time guy, Sage seems to have this offense clicking. There's not a deal of yanking him out of the lineup because Schaub's ready to go. The o is practicing with Sage, full time, and they have built something over the past 3 or 4 weeks. There's a real chemistry there, IMO.

I honestly do not know why the Titans have our number this year. By all accounts, we should be hammering them. I don;t know if it's the VY thing that has Richard Smith scared and not being aggressive enough to shut them down, but I saw a lot of big time passes completed against us by VY who is not a good passer the rest of the year.

 

[Leahmic223]

I'd keep Schaub hands down if I have to choose.

Simply because he is younger he still has a lot of learning to do. With Sage you are pretty much getting what you see, with Matt he still has a 7+ yr carreer ahead of him if we get him a solid LT that isn't going to get his career shortened.

IMO the offense looks about the same with Schaub in there except he makes some key mistakes. But also he has played what 3 games with Andre Johnson? Still with Andre out and Schaub in there our passing game was ranked like 6th in the NFL and that is without Andre, and then there were games where we were real thin at WR and still he found open guys.

Schaub is the guy IMO, Sage is a good QB though. I'd be happy for him if he goes elsewhere to play, he deserves to start somewhere, we are just going to have to find another solid backup is all. But I feel Schaub when healthy is our best option.

 

[Dan B.]

Schaub vs MIA (when he was "off")

20/34 (58.8%) 294 YDS 0TD 1INT

Sage vs DEN (when he was decimating Champ Bailey etc. etc.)
16/27 (59.3%) 200 YDS 1TD 1INT

And Matt did that without Andre.

So I ask you, what has Sage done that shows he personally is that much better? And don't just say "he wins." That's a Vincophile excuse. Teams can win because of their QB, regardless of their QB, or in spite of their QB. A TEAM"S WON LOSS RECORD IS NOT DEPENDANT ON ONE PLAYER That's why when you look at QB statistics on nfl.com they don't even list the quarterback's W/L record. It is irrelevant when gauging a QB's play.

The quarterbacks have virtually identical TD/TO ratios, QB ratings, completion percentage... basically every statistic one uses to gauge QB play has these two dead even. So why exactly is Sage clearly that much better?

 

[GP]

To compare Matt Schaub to Carson Palmer is a little much isn't it? Matt Schaub has a lot of problems to get worked out before he is going to be a fantastic NFL QB. Not to say that he'll never be great, but I simply believe that Rosenfels has done more for this team than Schaub has and I think it would be a shame to see Sage go (because he definitely deserves to be starting somewhere) because some bonehead in the FO doesn't want to accept the fact that we probably invested too much into Schaub.

I think this also includes some fans who also don't want to face the music on this issue, as well.

It't so much more convenient to support the incumbent rather than to climb out on a limb and say something different.

This is exactly what it boils down to: Admitting that we blew two 2nd round picks and made a big hullabaloo about a backup (Schaub) when we probably had our own backup (Sage) all along who could have led this team.

Which is why sooooo many posters here got their panties in a wad when Haynesworth made the comments about Schaub/Sage last game between us. I didn't rag Haynesworth for it because, while it WAS tasteless for him to say it, you have to tip your hat to him for having the guts to say what's only proving to become the truth: We took a risk and it didn't work.

That's the ballgame, though. Risks don't always pay off.

I just hope we make it clear to Sage and Schaub that they will battle it out in camp for the starting role. Anything less would be uncivilized.

 

[Hooston Texan]

Let's break down wins and losses a little more finely here:

I see Schaub as 4-6: the wins coming over KC, Carolina, Miami and NO. The losses being Indy, Atlanta, Jacksonville, the first Tennessee game, San Diego and Cleveland. I'm not giving him the loss in the second Titan game because we were tied when he went out (sort of akin to a pitcher). Sage took the field with the game tied, and we lost it.

But let's break this down a little further: with Andre Johnson, Schaub is 3-1. Without him, he went 1-5. We're just not a good team without AJ--and a running game.

Schaub will improve--in his first year as a (split-time) starter in college, he went 0-5. The next year, he was the ACC player of the year over Philip Rivers (well, beating out Rivers was more impressive in 2002 than it is now, admittedly).

The fact of the matter is that the team is now making huge strides. The two west coast games saw the emergence of a defense and a running game. Sage is a good QB who is certainly not inhibiting that progress, and we're very lucky to have him. But I'm pretty sure I've seen more Schaub passes than anyone on this board (unless someone else here is also a Wahoo), and I have complete faith that he is our guy. Of course, that kind of "pulling rank" won't satisfy anyone on this board.

As for Schaub's penchant for taking big hits--recall the first TD pass he threw against Carolina. Got absolutely walloped but got a nice pass out to AJ down the field that he turned into a TD. That's the kind of plays he makes. What that means is that we'll need a solid backup for him, and I'm thrilled we have Sage to fill that role.

[Edit because I forgot the bottom line] BOTTOM LINE: The above notwithstanding, I think a healthy Sage should start while Schaub is hurt/hurting these last few games, especially given the run the team is on. No sense in messing with success. But the Texans have too much invested in Matt not to presume that he is the starter for 2008--provided, of course, Sage doesn't clearly beat him out in the preseason.

 

[GP]

Schaub vs MIA (when he was "off")

20/34 (58.8%) 294 YDS 0TD 1INT

Sage vs DEN (when he was decimating Champ Bailey etc. etc.)
16/27 (59.3%) 200 YDS 1TD 1INT

And Matt did that without Andre.

So I ask you, what has Sage done that shows he personally is that much better? And don't just say "he wins." That's a Vincophile excuse. Teams can win because of their QB, regardless of their QB, or in spite of their QB. A TEAM"S WON LOSS RECORD IS NOT DEPENDANT ON ONE PLAYER That's why when you look at QB statistics on nfl.com they don't even list the quarterback's W/L record. It is irrelevant when gauging a QB's play.

The quarterbacks have virtually identical TD/TO ratios, QB ratings, completion percentage... basically every statistic one uses to gauge QB play has these two dead even. So why exactly is Sage clearly that much better?

Well, I think Kris Brown was kickig long field goals all day because drives were stalling just past mid-field.

But I recall Sage leading us down to the goal line a lot tonight. Somebody has to get the team down there, and someone has to be "clutch" and not piss away the chance at a TD.

Sage was efficient. Had Denver not sustained long drives all night, mostly via Bradon Marshall on nice gains at crucial moments to sustains a drive, the score might have been even more lopsided.

Look, I am less of a stat guy...and I'm more of a perception guy. I see this offense, and its role players, looking a lot more in rhythm and operating at a better pace than I did with Schaub as the starter. I also see a defense who is pinning its ears back and making BIG PLAYS, which CAN be attributed to having Demps and Bennett coming along nicely, but has also got to be partly due to a Texans offense scoring points and allowing the defense to take chances more.

Simply put, I just feel that outside of the Chiefs game and the Saints game, Schaub has not exactly looked like a world champ (to me). I have said that it might be due to him being a first-year starter who is perhaps a little under-developed (especially pertaining to physical fitness and endurance) but yet I see a few other things that are more of just part of Schaub's style, which I don't see getting better all of a sudden.

 

[Grid]

It has nothing to do with "supporting the incumbent instead of climbing out on a limb" and everything to do with not being hotheaded and jumping to conclusions.

Sage has been in the league 7 years and has never been elevated above the role of backup. He has looked "good" but you are ready to throw out a young QB who has also looked good so that we can start an old QB who has never looked good until now, and has made just as many, if not more, mistakes as the younger QB.

Why? Because he has 3 wins. His stats are not amazing, his physical abilities are not amazing, and his wins have been nice, but not incredible.. the only thing Sage has that Schaub doesnt is a lack of losses and a clean bill of health. You could have said the same about Young last year for the Titans and that doesnt seem to be panning out too well for them this year, does it?

I am willing to discuss and consider the possibilities of what we can do with Sage, but to sit here and act like we have just discovered a gold mine and Schaub is no longer needed... that is just stupid.

Please..for the love of god.. open your eyes and consider all the facts. Quit trying to win the argument and start thinking about what is best for the team.

I honestly think you are more interested in establishing yourself as a Sage lover, so that you can say "I LOVED HIM FIRST!" if he becomes a superstar for us, than you are in doing what is best for the team.

 

[GP]

It has nothing to do with "supporting the incumbent instead of climbing out on a limb" and everything to do with not being hotheaded and jumping to conclusions.

Sage has been in the league 7 years and has never been elevated above the role of backup. He has looked "good" but you are ready to throw out a young QB who has also looked good so that we can start an old QB who has never looked good until now, and has made just as many, if not more, mistakes as the younger QB.

Why? Because he has 3 wins. His stats are not amazing, his physical abilities are not amazing, and his wins have been nice, but not incredible.. the only thing Sage has that Schaub doesnt is a lack of losses and a clean bill of health. You could have said the same about Young last year for the Titans and that doesnt seem to be panning out too well for them this year, does it?

I am willing to discuss and consider the possibilities of what we can do with Sage, but to sit here and act like we have just discovered a gold mine and Schaub is no longer needed... that is just stupid.

Please..for the love of god.. open your eyes and consider all the facts. Quit trying to win the argument and start thinking about what is best for the team.

I honestly think you are more interested in establishing yourself as a Sage lover, so that you can say "I LOVED HIM FIRST!" if he becomes a superstar for us, than you are in doing what is best for the team.

I can see where people would think it, but it's not based on truth.

In fact, I giggled at Sage Lovers for the past few years. I didn't even bother posting on those threads because I thought the idea was lame. If anything, I have felt (in the past) that Sage WAS "just a good backup," a guy good enough to come in and keep the damage relatively low.

But I also began too wonder why Kubiak kept him these past two years. Why did we not go after a more suitable guy who might be able to be AS GOOD a quarterback as Sage...but with the upside of being a potential starter.

That's when I perked up (over this past off-season) and finally willed myself to believe that maybe there's a very good reason that Kubiak has locked Sage down as the true No. 2 QB on our team. Although I couldn;t see it in my mind's eye--because Carr was never really OUT of games enough to see Sage in long-term situations--I had to just trust that he was here for more than backup duty.

I mean, did you SEE the look of intensity on Kubiak's face at about 1:32 left in the fourth quarter? I've seen him smile at then end of a won game, but I have never seen the guy look like he did tonight. And the camera panning over to a smiling Sage Rosenfels, with a bandage on his chin, and the guys cutting up with him, well...it was a pretty fitting picture IMO.

Nah, I want this team to win. And I don't see it happening with Schaub as the all-out starter just as soon as he's ready to go for us.

Look, I've posted my points as to WHY I feel the way I feel.

If Schaub DOES get the job done, then that's great. It really is. And I will have been wrong, and I will willfully admit so. I did the same thing when I saw that my defense of David Carr for 4 1/2 years was wrong--I admitted to ALL OF YOU on the boards that I was wrong.

Just ask yourself this:

"Which Texans team have I enjoyed watching more: Schaub's Texans team or Sage's Texans team?"

I have felt a lot better about this TEAM when Sage has been the starter and has thus been able to really have this team under his leadership for long stretches of time.

Done.

Hopefully a lot of you DO see my heart on this.

 

[Mr PC]

Sage might as well finish out this season as the starter. You cant take him out if he hasnt lost a game. Sage has earned the start for these last two matches, and next season I think the QBs should compete in camp for the starting spot.

 

[GP]

Sage might as well finish out this season as the starter. You cant take him out if he hasnt lost a game. Sage has earned the start for these last two matches, and next season I think the QBs should compete in camp for the starting spot.

With Schaub's dislocated shoulder, I don't think there's even a choice about who starts the rest of the season.

I think we get hammered by the Colts, but I think we beat the Jags.

And I, like you, hope that we retain Sage and let him openly compete with Schaub for the starting role. That's something Carr never had (a rival) and it only helps the team in the end...it helps to see which guy is more fit. It forces a guy to prove himself beyond doubt, beyond the hype. And that includes the hype about Sage--If Schaub beats Sage out, in a truly OPEN competition, then I won't be upset. I'll be glad because Schaub will have had to have majorly improved on some things to have own the gig.

And therefore, in the end, WE (the fans) will win in that sort of situation. But there's nothing to be gained, IMO, by a team naming a starter and not even opening it up for competition.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

Sage has been such a breath of fresh air coming in and essentially we havn't lost a step. I want to say that first. However, watching Sage, even tonight, I just got a sense that he's not the guy I want leading our team for 16 games. Don't get me wrong, he played yet another great game but there were still those mistakes of rushing, poor timing on a lot of throws, etc. I don't see him as our full time starter.

I do also want to say this....Again, I love sage to death but a lot of this talk is reminding me of a certain situation up in Nashville. "Vince Young won all those games his rookie year....vs...Tenn's defense was the reason they won all those" Well tonight our Defense completely dominated. Mario was incredible, Demps had 2 easy Interception drops, Bennett had 2 Interception drops....Don't kid yourselves our defense was the biggest reason we won that game.

 

[TheRealJoker]

What's crazy is that if Sage hadn't broken his hand last season Kubes probably would've pulled Carr and we would've seen him put these performances together. Do you think we would've traded for Schaub then or let Sage have his shot?

As it is I think our qbs are interchangeable in terms of production but we hitched our wagon to Schaub in the offseason so I think we have them battle it out in training camp next season unless somebody offers us a sweet deal for Sage.

 

[austintexanite]

We'll probably trade Sage for a pick, as long as we get some good value for him I'm for it. There is no doubt he has played solid this past couple of weeks, but, in my opinion, that's it. Denver didn't play great and I think that Kubiak hid Sage's weaknesses.

 

[Runner]

Sage is doing all of this one year too late. If Carr got hurt last year like Schaub did this year he probably would've been the starter going into this year.

Or in the history of David Carr if the oaches had benched him an let back-ups play, who knows where we'd be at?

 

[jerek]

Sage has been good in relief but saying he is "3-0" isn't the whole story IMO--he's played some terrific stretches as a reliever and he has also lost winnable games for us as a reliever. He has a few "oh ****" moments every game (last night's INT into triple coverage--where did that come from?) and sometimes like last night those lead to big scores. A lot of Schaub's less than impressive games came w/o AJ while Rosenfels has mostly had him.

Having said that I absolutely would try to keep both of them--can't go wrong with having that kind of reliable backup on the bench. Maybe Sage can start, but for now I think the jury's out on that one.

 

[OzzO]

...Maybe Rosenfels is a product of the system and Kubiak's coaching?

Unloading Rosenfels may not be as a bad as everyone thinks if Kubiak is as good as a QB coach some people think.

Good opportunity to leverage value to improve the team. Kind of like when Shanahan traded Portis for Bailey. Every one thought he was crazy for doing that.

Wouldn't that be something if the Texans became known as the team that could take any QB in their system and make him serviceable like Denver is known for their RB's in the system? Especially after our 1st five years.

 

[thunderkyss]

If things work out well for us, we'll get a couple of picks for Sage Rosenfels.

If we beat the Colts, and Sage plays like he did tonight(good enough), We'll probably get a second round pick, plus a second day pick.

Sage can, and probably will go on to have a Flutie like career somewhere else.

It would be nice if he could do that here, but it isn't going to happen.

We'll trade him, to get enough capital to trade up in next years draft.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Well, I think Kris Brown was kickig long field goals all day because drives were stalling just past mid-field.

But I recall Sage leading us down to the goal line a lot tonight. Somebody has to get the team down there, and someone has to be "clutch" and not piss away the chance at a TD.

Sage was efficient. Had Denver not sustained long drives all night, mostly via Bradon Marshall on nice gains at crucial moments to sustains a drive, the score might have been even more lopsided.

Look, I am less of a stat guy...and I'm more of a perception guy. I see this offense, and its role players, looking a lot more in rhythm and operating at a better pace than I did with Schaub as the starter. I also see a defense who is pinning its ears back and making BIG PLAYS, which CAN be attributed to having Demps and Bennett coming along nicely, but has also got to be partly due to a Texans offense scoring points and allowing the defense to take chances more.

Simply put, I just feel that outside of the Chiefs game and the Saints game, Schaub has not exactly looked like a world champ (to me). I have said that it might be due to him being a first-year starter who is perhaps a little under-developed (especially pertaining to physical fitness and endurance) but yet I see a few other things that are more of just part of Schaub's style, which I don't see getting better all of a sudden.

Let me give you a little refresher since you claim your not a stats guy yet you just try to throw out bad games and have amnesia on other ones that weren't won...Schaub...80% after AJ went out in the Indy loss!!..how are those first three games and EFFICIENCY. His "horrible game v Atlanta he was 70% and over 300 yards with no ints. He lost a fumble. This is the same stuff Sage does and in many cases less turnovers and better percentages. Also, when your top weapon is out, the red zone shrinks. Everyone knows this. He was 3-1 with AJ. Our sack total is one of the tops in the league. Through half of the season Schaub was ranked in the Top 10 in 7 QB categories. You keep saying I'm not spelling things out but your arguments hold no weight. I showed you a stat on our sack total and what NFL execs are seeing of the guy in the pocket..along with many of us..and you come right back with an argument that he can't get throws off and is too slow in the pocket. How does that work?

KC--(W)-16 of 22 (72.7), 225 yds, 1 TD, 1 int
Car--(W)-20 of 28 (71.4), 227 yds, 2 TDs, 0 int
Indy(L)--27 of 33 (81.8), 236 yds, 1 TD, 2 int
Atl(L)--28 of 40 (70), 317 yds, 1 TD, 0 int
Miami(W) 20 of 34 (58.8) 294 0 TD 1 int

I will keep going if you want.....because there are only 1 or 2 truly bad games out of 11, yet people are turning a blind eye..ok, I will..almost all of these games above abnd below are similar if not better to the stats you are saying made Champ Bailey look like a chump and "picking apart defenses."

Jax(L) 19 of 31 (61.3) 259 yds 0 Tds 1 int
Tenn(L) 5 of 9 (55.6), 23 yds, 0 and 0 (knowcked out..Sage comes in with 4 TOs and then leads us back)
S.D-(L and a truly bad game) 11 of 18 (61.1), 77 yds, 0 TD, 2 ints
Out Two Games
N.O.--21 of 33 (63.6) 293 yds 2 TDs 0 ints
CLE-(allegedly horrible game but actually not bad besides 2 picks)
22 of 36 (61.1) 256 yds 2 tds 2 ints
Tenn--3 of 5 (60), 34 yds, 0 and 0

Derek Anderson would like to talk about this topic.

He was up-and-down in Cleveland. There was Tim Couch, then there was Charlie Frye, then there was Derek, then it was back to Tim, and then it was Derek, and then it was Frye, and over and over and over.
And I guess Derek Anderson just somehow found a way one day.

Now you are just making up facts. Couch hasn't played in Cleveland since 2003. Anderson was drafted by Baltimore in 2005 and was picked up on waivers by Cle last year in 2006 where he played sparingly...a few games. So this is the year he has played and done well without jumping around.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Sage has been good in relief but saying he is "3-0" isn't the whole story IMO--he's played some terrific stretches as a reliever and he has also lost winnable games for us as a reliever. He has a few "oh ****" moments every game (last night's INT into triple coverage--where did that come from?) and sometimes like last night those lead to big scores. A lot of Schaub's less than impressive games came w/o AJ while Rosenfels has mostly had him.

Having said that I absolutely would try to keep both of them--can't go wrong with having that kind of reliable backup on the bench. Maybe Sage can start, but for now I think the jury's out on that one.

Well said. I seem to remember a guy named Beurlein who was a great backup and who won 4 games during a Cowboy SB year when Aikman went out. He was a hot commodity, went somewhere else and didn't really do too much the rest of his career but was a decent NFL QB..a better backup. You can't predict these things. The best thing would be to have both. You could probably count on one hand the number of NFL teams that have a QB make it through an entire season. That is why I will never get the argument that Schaub is fragile when almost all QBs these days miss games. I'd love to have both.

 

[Buffi2]

I think we keep both of them. Sage just signed a 4 year 7 million $ contract last year. Give the guy a bonus and let him battle it out with Schaub next year. If Schaub shows he can do the job - then trade Sage after next year. Right now, however, we aren't sure that Schaub can stay on the field and a good backup seems to be pretty important.

How distressing would it be next year to know we have come this far, Schaub gets hurt and we can't continue our newly found winning ways because Sage is playing for Atlanta and we are stuck with some 3rd string backup. The very thought gives me the heebie jeebies.

 

[Mr teX]

This thread is the exact reason i came to this place last to see the feedback about the game. Sage's been playing great i'm happy we have him, but to think there's going to be a QB controversy next year is absurd. mainly b/c

1) they just gave Schaub 40 + mil to be the starter

2) Schaub hasn't done anything to lose the starting job

3) Sage isn't playing head & shoulders better than Schaub.

Schaub has just unfortunately taken some tough shots that have knocked him out of a couple of games. Furthermore for all Sage has done his TD to INT ratio isn't all that great for someone who's only played significant minutes in 5 games.

 

[Mr teX]

All this raving about Sage is just bandwagonish. If we're unable to overcome his 2 turnovers & lose against TB last week, i doubt we're having these threads pop up.

The thing everyone is missing is that our defense is playing lights out & we're not Losing the turnover battle which by far was the biggest reason we were losing games prior to our current win streak. Another thing is our run game has actually been a factor.

We're no different than any other team in these aspects of the game.

 

[Goldensilence]

Have Said it before and will again. Cody Carlson 2.0.

 

[brickman]

There is absolutely no way the Texans would pick Sage over Schaub. Sage can either accept his role as being a backup or can demand to be traded. I'm sure there will be teams that will bite, but the Texans have their man with Schaub.

100% correct!!!! You don't give Schaub the kind of $ they gave him and then sit him. If he's healthy, he's your starter......... case closed. It may be right or wrong, but it's the way it is in the NFL now.

 

[maddogmrb]

There is absolutely no way the Texans would pick Sage over Schaub. Sage can either accept his role as being a backup or can demand to be traded. I'm sure there will be teams that will bite, but the Texans have their man with Schaub.

Yeah unfortunately, you may be right. It may not matter who is playing better or who has actually EARNED the job versus being annointed, does it?

 

[brickman]

Yeah unfortunately, you may be right. It may not matter who is playing better or who has actually EARNED the job versus being annointed, does it?

In my opinion, the Texans gave Scahuab the job when the acquired him for the big bucks. It's too late to be second guessing their move now. Hopefully we can keep Sage, because he's a quality backup.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Yeah unfortunately, you may be right. It may not matter who is playing better or who has actually EARNED the job versus being annointed, does it?

Again, look at the stats above..you can't say that, especially with Sage's turnover ratio. I'm glad we are winning but it should just be two guys competing.

 

[thunderkyss]

Look, I am less of a stat guy...and I'm more of a perception guy.

& that may be part of the problem right there.

Look, I'm not going to tell you that Schaub is better than Sage in any way. At the same time, I won't be telling anyone that Sage is the better QB. But if you asked me, I'd tell you I'd prefer to start Sage from now until.

I was one of the guys who was fine with starting Sage this season, and didn't see why we'd give up two #2 draft picks for a guy who is basically Sage Rosenfels. Unproven backup.

But it isn't going to happen.

Sage has played himself into the starters role, I'll agree with that. If we win out, and luck into a play-off spot, and they start Schaub for the play-off game, I'd be upset.

But if we win out, still miss the play-offs, I'd expect the Texans would be looking to cash in & redeem their second round pick in the 2008 draft.

& I'd be fine with that.

I'm a Sage fan.

But I don't think his play, or his ability to move the ball, to be that much better than Schaub's.

 

[brickman]

& that may be part of the problem right there.

Look, I'm not going to tell you that Schaub is better than Sage in any way. At the same time, I won't be telling anyone that Sage is the better QB. But if you asked me, I'd tell you I'd prefer to start Sage from now until.

I was one of the guys who was fine with starting Sage this season, and didn't see why we'd give up two #2 draft picks for a guy who is basically Sage Rosenfels. Unproven backup.

But it isn't going to happen.

Sage has played himself into the starters role, I'll agree with that. If we win out, and luck into a play-off spot, and they start Schaub for the play-off game, I'd be upset.

But if we win out, still miss the play-offs, I'd expect the Texans would be looking to cash in & redeem their second round pick in the 2008 draft.

& I'd be fine with that.

I'm a Sage fan.

But I don't think his play, or his ability to move the ball, to be that much better than Schaub's.

GOOD POST!!!!

 

[Goldensilence]

All this raving about Sage is just bandwagonish. If we're unable to overcome his 2 turnovers & lose against TB last week, i doubt we're having these threads pop up.

The thing everyone is missing is that our defense is playing lights out & we're not Losing the turnover battle which by far was the biggest reason we were losing games prior to our current win streak. Another thing is our run game has actually been a factor.

We're no different than any other team in these aspects of the game.

Psht why would someone like GP let...little things like FACTS get in the way of a perfectly imaginary QB controversy?!

Sage has been playing ok...not lights out or pro bowl caliber by any means. It's easy to laud praise when he has a top 5 WR and at least a semblance of a running game behind him. Two thing Schaub had only twice this year oh yeah...he was 2-0.

 

[threetoedpete]

Dear Lord people. Enjoy a TEAM win with Mario breaking out on national TV. Schaub played excellent in some losses this year without weapons and did well for us. Sage has done well also and won the last 3. Considering his background in the league I'm not jumping on any controversies. Sage did a good job tonight but wasn't the ONE who won the game for us. Schaub has done the same. Enjoy the win without the b.s. The making mountains out of molehills gets old quick.

Well there's at least two of us in the house...Don't drink the cool aide Texan's fans. Nice post.

 

[threetoedpete]

There is no controversy. Schaub is hurt and Sage is playing great in relief. I also think that calling Schaub fragile is like calling Adrian Peterson fragile. He got a concussion on a cheap shot and dislocated his shoulder on an odd fall.

Agreed. I think this is a tempest in tea pot for folks looking for something destructive to do. There is no controversy. Did I post that MS was cluster couplultion on the roll out and out on the edge......Sage is worse. Break out the sun dails. No one has figured it out yet...but they will. The people calling for a switch are just rats looking for the next ship to jump. Don't feed them and the trolls will move on.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Agreed. I think this is a tempest in tea pot for folks looking for something destructive to do. There is no controversy. Did I post that MS was cluster couplultion on the roll out and out on the edge......Sage is worse. Break out the sun dails. No one has figured it out yet...but they will. The people calling for a switch are just rats looking for the next ship to jump. Don't feed them and the trolls will move on.

Nice post. The stats show this all. As someone said above our defense has been what has changed games for us and has helped us overcome turnovers, etc. We are getting consistent play all around.

 

[Chance_C]

Nice game Sage. Real nice game offensive line, running backs, defensive line, secondary, special teams, receivers, linebackers, trainers, fans, everyone. Except GP. This wasn't a total team effort, this was the Sage show. For the third time!! Holy cow man, have you tried Cymbalta? Everyone, please tell GP that Sage is God himself and maybe, just maybe we can have message board peace.

 

[GP]

Wow.

With friends like you guys, who needs enemies?

I don't recall trashing any of you in my posts on this topic. I might be urging you to see it my way, and I might be enthusiastic about my opinion, but it seems like a lot of you are enjoying bashing me.

I gave MY points as to why I think Schaub is not the answer, but I don't see anything original from you guys on this. It's the sad, tired one-liners form you guys on it. I just figured we could talk football and discuss issues. I think if you look at my responses, they are filled with reasons and ideas...but I look at your replies on this, and it's perosnal attacks on me...hinting I need to be on a drug, saying that people should just agree with me so we can move on, etc.

LOL.

1. Schaub is fragile no matter WHAT type of hit he takes. Nothing less than perfect oline blocking is going to allow him to be a good QB.

2. Schaub is slow getting away from center, giving the rushing defenders an easier chance of reaching him and disrupting the play. His footwork also gets sloppy as the game goes on, appearing ot be sluggish and uncertain of where to go as he's trying to scramble...resulting in getting waxed from the blindside.

3. Schaub is not a marathon runner--He looks good in short bursts. The guy hasn't strung together more than 1 1/2 games of fast-paced football. IMO, he was gassed after the Panthers game and didn't recover.

4. He cannot sense blinside pressure and make the right decision because he's trying too hard to make something happen. Throw it away, and play another down, please.

I'll just keep putting these points up on the board, in my posts, as a reminder that I am trying to engage in the arena of ideas while you guys are basically just having a grand old time with personal attacks.

Just let your guard down some Sunday afternoon (whenever Schaub finally gets healthy enough to last an entire game) and try to see if you can see any of those four points I just described.

You may continue with the kind remarks you've had for me thus far.

 

[2BCF]

Sage might as well finish out this season as the starter. You cant take him out if he hasnt lost a game. Sage has earned the start for these last two matches, and next season I think the QBs should compete in camp for the starting spot.

Absolutely.
Stick with what's working for the remainder of the season.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Wow.

With friends like you guys, who needs enemies?

I don't recall trashing any of you in my posts on this topic. I might be urging you to see it my way, and I might be enthusiastic about my opinion, but it seems like a lot of you are enjoying bashing me.

I gave MY points as to why I think Schaub is not the answer, but I don't see anything original from you guys on this. It's the sad, tired one-liners form you guys on it. I just figured we could talk football and discuss issues. I think if you look at my responses, they are filled with reasons and ideas...but I look at your replies on this, and it's perosnal attacks on me...hinting I need to be on a drug, saying that people should just agree with me so we can move on, etc.

LOL.

1. Schaub is fragile no matter WHAT type of hit he takes. Nothing less than perfect oline blocking is going to allow him to be a good QB.

2. Schaub is slow getting away from center, giving the rushing defenders an easier chance of reaching him and disrupting the play. His footwork also gets sloppy as the game goes on, appearing ot be sluggish and uncertain of where to go as he's trying to scramble...resulting in getting waxed from the blindside.

3. Schaub is not a marathon runner--He looks good in short bursts. The guy hasn't strung together more than 1 1/2 games of fast-paced football. IMO, he was gassed after the Panthers game and didn't recover.

4. He cannot sense blinside pressure and make the right decision because he's trying too hard to make something happen. Throw it away, and play another down, please.

I'll just keep putting these points up on the board, in my posts, as a reminder that I am trying to engage in the arena of ideas while you guys are basically just having a grand old time with personal attacks.

Just let your guard down some Sunday afternoon (whenever Schaub finally gets healthy enough to last an entire game) and try to see if you can see any of those four points I just described.

You may continue with the kind remarks you've had for me thus far.

Maybe people wouldn't be so critical if you actually read the stats and the facts before hunting and pecking 100 mph another reply. The spelled out arguments are on the previous page and they are true. I laid them out game by game. I can't help that you made up facts about Anderson to prove your point. You can't take 11 games where a guy gets two massive hits and is out and make the argument that he is automatically fragile when almost every QB, save maybe 5-8, don't make it through a full season. As others have pointed out, Aikman only played 11 his rookie year. People weren't rushing to annoint Steve Walsh because he got their only win. It happens. Please read the long list of facts on the other pages. Stop listing the pocket presence argument when the totals say otherwise. Its frustrating to debate a person and to lay out things like his rankings the first half of the season only for it to be ignored because you are too busy typing.

 

[hookinreds]

We'll probably trade Sage for a pick, as long as we get some good value for him I'm for it. There is no doubt he has played solid this past couple of weeks, but, in my opinion, that's it. Denver didn't play great and I think that Kubiak hid Sage's weaknesses.

Sage keeps playing well, we trade him back to the Dolphins for the first pick and we take McFadden or trade down in top 5 and take Jake Long or another OL stud, and a RB in a later round. It's simple. Ha!

 

[Chance_C]

The problems with football discussions with you (I admit, I usually only observe) are one sided discussions. All of them. It's your way or the highway. I've read where people have countered your arguments with valid points, I've read where people have tried to reason with you, all to no avail. Sage had a decent game. The Texans played a hell of a game. Sage is a good QB. Matt is a good QB. Matt took some serious shots, and he's missed some time. Sage hasn't and he's proving himself on the field. Good for him. And even more importantly, good for the Texans. I think that Matt showed enough that considering our investment in him (yes, it's a factor), and what he showed while he was on the field without certain players that he should not lose his job due to injury. Sage has been a great asset for us no doubt about it. Thank God that he was our backup, or this season could have really gotten ugly. Bottom line, it's a great day to be a Texans fan, even amongst all this discourse.

 

[Texan_Bill]

The problems with football discussions with you (I admit, I usually only observe) are one sided discussions. All of them. It's your way or the highway. I've read where people have countered your arguments with valid points, I've read where people have tried to reason with you, all to no avail. Sage had a decent game. The Texans played a hell of a game. Sage is a good QB. Matt is a good QB. Matt took some serious shots, and he's missed some time. Sage hasn't and he's proving himself on the field. Good for him. And even more importantly, good for the Texans. I think that Matt showed enough that considering our investment in him (yes, it's a factor), and what he showed while he was on the field without certain players that he should not lose his job due to injury. Sage has been a great asset for us no doubt about it. Thank God that he was our backup, or this season could have really gotten ugly. Bottom line, it's a great day to be a Texans fan, even amongst all this discourse.

QFT!!! Great post!!

 

[Mr teX]

Wow.

With friends like you guys, who needs enemies?

I don't recall trashing any of you in my posts on this topic. I might be urging you to see it my way, and I might be enthusiastic about my opinion, but it seems like a lot of you are enjoying bashing me.

I gave MY points as to why I think Schaub is not the answer, but I don't see anything original from you guys on this. It's the sad, tired one-liners form you guys on it. I just figured we could talk football and discuss issues. I think if you look at my responses, they are filled with reasons and ideas...but I look at your replies on this, and it's perosnal attacks on me...hinting I need to be on a drug, saying that people should just agree with me so we can move on, etc.

LOL.

1. Schaub is fragile no matter WHAT type of hit he takes. Nothing less than perfect oline blocking is going to allow him to be a good QB.

2. Schaub is slow getting away from center, giving the rushing defenders an easier chance of reaching him and disrupting the play. His footwork also gets sloppy as the game goes on, appearing ot be sluggish and uncertain of where to go as he's trying to scramble...resulting in getting waxed from the blindside.
Are u serious? If you Tivo'ed the game go back & see how much faster Sage is coming from under center.
3. Schaub is not a marathon runner--He looks good in short bursts. The guy hasn't strung together more than 1 1/2 games of fast-paced football. IMO, he was gassed after the Panthers game and didn't recover.
What the hell kind of critique is this?
4. He cannot sense blinside pressure and make the right decision because he's trying too hard to make something happen. Throw it away, and play another down, please. Yeah b/c Sage is soooo much better at that, Yeah he was really sensing that blindside pressure against TB when he got hit & stripped from the backside both plays he fumbled the ball.

I'll just keep putting these points up on the board, in my posts, as a reminder that I am trying to engage in the arena of ideas while you guys are basically just having a grand old time with personal attacks.

Just let your guard down some Sunday afternoon (whenever Schaub finally gets healthy enough to last an entire game) and try to see if you can see any of those four points I just described.

You may continue with the kind remarks you've had for me thus far.

You have no points, everything you've said about Schaub has happened or can be said about Sage. & again for a guy who's only played in 5 games & started in 3, explain why he has just as many INT's & TO's as Schaub does who's played more games.

 

[Thorn]

Will someone tell me what's wrong with having two good quarterbacks on the team? Why all hand wringing over this? Schaub is the starter, Sage is the backup, and we should be frigging damn happy we have them both.

And this comes from someone who (before the season started) wanted Sage to start and seriously trashed the trade for Schaub.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Will someone tell me what's wrong with having two good quarterbacks on the team? Why all hand wringing over this? Schaub is the starter, Sage is the backup, and we should be frigging damn happy we have them both.

And this comes from someone who (before the season started) wanted Sage to start and seriously trashed the trade for Schaub.

Exactly the point many of us are making. People started writing Sage the savior posts 2 weeks ago and most just wanted to explain that Schaub has done just as well, if not better, and that it is not a problem to have both guys and be winning. Its a good TEAM problem to have.

 

[Mr PC]

I am very pleased with our QBs, I want to keep both of them on the roster that way we dont have any worries. I do feel the need to stick up for Sage when so many people say that he is only a backup and thats all he will ever amount to. Sage has proven over and over that he has what it takes to lead this team. And I really dont see how anybody in their right mind could say Schaub has done better than Sage. I'd say they have both been good, possibly equal, but Sage has done every bit as good a job as Matt and there is no sense in denying it.

 

[GP]

Will someone tell me what's wrong with having two good quarterbacks on the team? Why all hand wringing over this? Schaub is the starter, Sage is the backup, and we should be frigging damn happy we have them both.

And this comes from someone who (before the season started) wanted Sage to start and seriously trashed the trade for Schaub.

I'm the opposite of you: I laid a big wet sloppy kiss on the Schaub deal when it happened. Heck, I even posted a YouTube video about Schaub that showed how better he was than Carr (from Brian Baldinger's NFLN analysis). And I guess I forgot to hold my horses and wait until I saw him on the field.

Sage signed a four-year contract in 2006 (details here) so that's some good news.

But he can seek a trade. I don't know if he'd push for it or not. If he's relatively happy in Houston, he might just be happy with with his $2 million signing bonus, as well as the $1 million or so he gets every year for four years. He might be content as a backup. I just don't know why he wouldn't try and leverage his recent success into a starting role somewhere.

If I were Sage, I'd have my agent express a desire to team management that an open competition (in camp) needs to be guaranteed somehow.

Otherwise, there seems to be some teams with QB messes (Chicago, for example) who might give us good value for him. Maybe.

 

[HoustonFrog]

I am very pleased with our QBs, I want to keep both of them on the roster that way we dont have any worries. I do feel the need to stick up for Sage when so many people say that he is only a backup and thats all he will ever amount to. Sage has proven over and over that he has what it takes to lead this team. And I really dont see how anybody in their right mind could say Schaub has done better than Sage. I'd say they have both been good, possibly equal, but Sage has done every bit as good a job as Matt and there is no sense in denying it.

And it is the above sentiment that seems to have caused the dispute. There are arguments to both sides but in reality its started as people saying Sage was so much better than Schaub and how we made a bad move. Go look at the stats. It is close but it isn't a complete review with the players that were missing and with the sample size. There are turnovers and many other things to look at. There are many of us in our right mind that just aren't so black and white and hate the bandwagon nature proclaiming one player so much better after every week.

Sage signed a four-year contract in 2006 details here

Yes, it has been talked about here but you were too busy telling us he was going to bolt because fo these games

 

[GP]

I am very pleased with our QBs, I want to keep both of them on the roster that way we dont have any worries. I do feel the need to stick up for Sage when so many people say that he is only a backup and thats all he will ever amount to. Sage has proven over and over that he has what it takes to lead this team. And I really dont see how anybody in their right mind could say Schaub has done better than Sage. I'd say they have both been good, possibly equal, but Sage has done every bit as good a job as Matt and there is no sense in denying it.

Quoted for daring boldness.

 

[Mr PC]

And it is the above sentiment that seems to have caused the dispute. There are arguments to both sides but in reality its started as people saying Sage was so much better than Schaub and how we made a bad move. Go look at the stats. It is close but it isn't a complete review with the players that were missing and with the sample size. There are turnovers and many other things to look at. There are many of us in our right mind that just aren't so black and white and hate the bandwagon nature proclaiming one player so much better after every week.

Ive looked at the stats and seen both of them perform. Like I said they both did well. But there is no way to make the case that Schaub has done better than Sage. You could make the case that they have performed about equally, or that Schaub has a higher ceiling, but there is no way you can say Matt has performed better than Sage this season. In the last sentece of your post you say you hate the bandwagon mentality of proclaiming one player better than another based on a relatively small sample size. Guess what that is exactly what you are doing when you say Matt is better than Sage.

 

[GP]

And it is the above sentiment that seems to have caused the dispute. There are arguments to both sides but in reality its started as people saying Sage was so much better than Schaub and how we made a bad move. Go look at the stats. It is close but it isn't a complete review with the players that were missing and with the sample size. There are turnovers and many other things to look at. There are many of us in our right mind that just aren't so black and white and hate the bandwagon nature proclaiming one player so much better after every week.

I was off the Schaub wagon right about the Miami game. So I was off the wagon way before Sage was even breaking a sweat on the field on Sundays this season.

The whole "Sage is a great backup" thing is what's really irking me, I guess. To me, it's a slap in the face of a guy (Sage) who has been a better overall solution at QB than Schaub has been.

Man, I am sorry if this rubs you wrong. But I just do NOT see what you all see in Matt Schaub. You can say I am making a snap judgment, but that's what happens when we get fed a bunch of mularkey on David Carr for 5 years.

This team has a vastly more depleted line than Schaub had, and Sage is making it work. He's just flat out lapping Schaub when it comes to getting it done.

I think we've just about worn this argument out. I think I have said all I can say, which is probably just fine with you.